Should I bother getting certified??
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
I toss resumes that tout certifications. I want to see experience on real projects. (For your senior project, if you have one, pick something you can actually complete and show off. That will do more for you than all the degrees, certifications and amount of CS theory you can spout.) -- modified at 18:08 Wednesday 16th August, 2006 [ADDED: Some have pointed out that certifications can help at some companies. That is true. I also refuse to work for such companies.]
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Certification is a waste of money. Bite the bullet, take a hard job with low pay for a good company and learn the ropes. 3 years later when you still haven't paid of your student loan and your credit card balance is the same you can then move up to a real paying job. (Don't really bother asking for a raise as you will have been typecast at the current company). My first programming job? $25k a year! I am glad I did though because I gained so much.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
I've been working with a mid-sized corporation writing web applications and maintaining and/or updating existing code for about two years now. I still know next nothing compared to a guru, but I love the fact that I can still learn new nuances and tricks every day. Do you reckon that I should concentrate on a single language that I'm familiar with or learn a little about many? I'm getting almost competant with ASP.NET/C# at my present internship. Thanks by the way for the advice, I pretty much figured that if you can't walk the walk no amount of paper will land you a dream job even entry level.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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Yes, eventually. The first step is to get in the door and get over the realization the "nifty piece of paper" doesn't really mean anything. Get some experience and get comfortable with the direction you want to head. Afterward, then yes, pursue the cert. I found it to be benficial to my career, both finacially and educationally. I have had several experiences where what I had studied came up in interviews or on the job. I knew the answer without having to research it.
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
the realization the "nifty piece of paper" doesn't really mean anything
I know this, but hey I've got to put something in the frame right?:laugh: Do you have suggestions as to where are the best places to start in the business? I live in the Northwest(US) now but would move for better opportunities.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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I've been working with a mid-sized corporation writing web applications and maintaining and/or updating existing code for about two years now. I still know next nothing compared to a guru, but I love the fact that I can still learn new nuances and tricks every day. Do you reckon that I should concentrate on a single language that I'm familiar with or learn a little about many? I'm getting almost competant with ASP.NET/C# at my present internship. Thanks by the way for the advice, I pretty much figured that if you can't walk the walk no amount of paper will land you a dream job even entry level.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Lil Turtle wrote:
nuances
Now you're gonna make espeir all riled up. :~
-- -= Proudly Made on Earth =-
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I toss resumes that tout certifications. I want to see experience on real projects. (For your senior project, if you have one, pick something you can actually complete and show off. That will do more for you than all the degrees, certifications and amount of CS theory you can spout.) -- modified at 18:08 Wednesday 16th August, 2006 [ADDED: Some have pointed out that certifications can help at some companies. That is true. I also refuse to work for such companies.]
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
[ADDED: Some have pointed out that certifications can help at some companies. That is true. I also refuse to work for such companies.]
Does this reflect the work environment, or standards?:confused: Just seeking your opinion.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
the realization the "nifty piece of paper" doesn't really mean anything
I know this, but hey I've got to put something in the frame right?:laugh: Do you have suggestions as to where are the best places to start in the business? I live in the Northwest(US) now but would move for better opportunities.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Lil Turtle wrote:
the best places to start in the business?
at the bottom :-D
only two letters away from being an asset
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Lil Turtle wrote:
My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified,
No. When people tell me they are an MCP, I often ask 'so which exam did you pass ?'. I don't think that playing a game of buying books, reading crib sheets and paying for an exam proves anything except a reliance on external justification.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Lil Turtle wrote:
the best places to start in the business?
at the bottom :-D
only two letters away from being an asset
Any idea when those other two letters make it to the alphabet;P:-D Is that mostly grunt work or do you reckon I'll be able to code?
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
It's fashion those days, I see that a lot of companies ask for certificacions, but there are not only MS ones, you have other certs very helpfull. Sun, Oracle, PMI, etc... I am MCAD (3 exams from MS) and I swear, anyone can make it, even without knowing, so I assume if I were an employer I wouldn't take too much seriously a certification everyone can do with just so little effort. But I insist, it's fashion those days to ask for certifications. In my personal experience it got me a job since they asked me, are you at least MCP (1 exam)? And when a said Yes, they told me: Good, cause we are hiring MCP and plus. So... in some cases it can be usefull I think, but it does not mean that you know something. :~
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It's fashion those days, I see that a lot of companies ask for certificacions, but there are not only MS ones, you have other certs very helpfull. Sun, Oracle, PMI, etc... I am MCAD (3 exams from MS) and I swear, anyone can make it, even without knowing, so I assume if I were an employer I wouldn't take too much seriously a certification everyone can do with just so little effort. But I insist, it's fashion those days to ask for certifications. In my personal experience it got me a job since they asked me, are you at least MCP (1 exam)? And when a said Yes, they told me: Good, cause we are hiring MCP and plus. So... in some cases it can be usefull I think, but it does not mean that you know something. :~
siskhoalanka wrote:
it's fashion those days
Does this mean I shouldn't wear my DBZ shirt to the interview?;P So they're good for a foot in the door, huh? That might almost make it worth it, as I'm sure I could convince my advisor to give me some additional credits for passing on top of it. Thanks for the pearls of wisdom. -- modified at 18:45 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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Any idea when those other two letters make it to the alphabet;P:-D Is that mostly grunt work or do you reckon I'll be able to code?
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
It really depends on the company. A small place would probably offer the best opportunity. I read recently that the best place to start out, in any career, is not in the big city, where you would be just another recent grad. The smaller markets offer a chance to get in and start gaining experience and making a name for yourself.
only two letters away from being an asset
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It really depends on the company. A small place would probably offer the best opportunity. I read recently that the best place to start out, in any career, is not in the big city, where you would be just another recent grad. The smaller markets offer a chance to get in and start gaining experience and making a name for yourself.
only two letters away from being an asset
Right on, Right on. Thanks.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
[ADDED: Some have pointed out that certifications can help at some companies. That is true. I also refuse to work for such companies.]
Does this reflect the work environment, or standards?:confused: Just seeking your opinion.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Computer certifications indicate very little about someone's capacity to do a job. They mainly test the capacity to remember esoteric facts, not actually use those facts in a meaningful way. A company that depends on certificates as a determining factor in hiring respect the superficial over actually getting the job done. I should add that I've NEVER been interviewed by a hiring manager who cared one iota about certificates; the only place where this has come up is with the human resources department (in every case over the objections of the hiring manager.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
[ADDED: Some have pointed out that certifications can help at some companies. That is true. I also refuse to work for such companies.]
Does this reflect the work environment, or standards?:confused: Just seeking your opinion.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
I'll now give you a very odd recommendation; try to get hired at the biggest company you can. Once there, take as many classes you can on their dime (not certification, but real meat and potatoes classes.) Use them. Heck, if they pay for a masters degreee, take them up on it (if you can stand it; I couldn't even tolerate undergraduate CS classes and so got my degree in making movies.) Stick around three years and then go find the job you really want.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Lil Turtle wrote:
nuances
Now you're gonna make espeir all riled up. :~
-- -= Proudly Made on Earth =-
Nah, I think the soapbox is his homepage :)
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
It depends on your oppurtunities to get progressive valuable experience without it and the job market in your area. The best programmer I know doesn`t have a bachelor's degree or certifications, that prevents him from even applying to jobs for which he would be overqualified. But the contractor's market is good, and in that one, experience on your resume is worth a lot and he's very succesfull. Personaly I think certification would be worth it only if it opens you doors you couldn't get to by slowly building your own real work experience, even if that way takes longer.
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
It doesn't hurt but it really doesn't necessarily help that much either. In my experience I have found that people/clients outside the IT industry apply more significance to the certification than those in the 'know'. So if you are going out on your own as a consultant (or planning to) then I would consider it, but otherwise I would wait until you are employed and get your employer to pay for it. Cheers, David
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Lil Turtle wrote:
My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified,
No. When people tell me they are an MCP, I often ask 'so which exam did you pass ?'. I don't think that playing a game of buying books, reading crib sheets and paying for an exam proves anything except a reliance on external justification.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Seems a bit rich coming from soming who adds "Microsoft MVP" to the end of their name. Meeting some MVPs I would not say too many better things about the MVP process as compared to the MCP
I guess you have no idea what an MVP is then ? MVP is an award that Microsoft gives, I didn't ask for it, nor did I sit any exam to get it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I guess you have no idea what an MVP is then ? MVP is an award that Microsoft gives, I didn't ask for it, nor did I sit any exam to get it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Fair call, now let me share my opinion of SOME of the MVPs that I HAVE met. All about talking themselves up in community forums, mailing list, etc most of the time not really answering questions just racking up points on the forum in order to become Gold this or Platinum that, doing as many presentations as possible most of the time ripping off TechEd presentation or doing beginner level presentations and of course networking with the right people in order to get their name on the list. I would not be fair if I say that I have met and worked with many MVPs that are brilliant, but MVP status just like MCP status doesnt guarantee it so I found it interesting that you would comment on the value of MCP and yet feel happy to sign off with MVP