Living in Canada
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As I told Chris I've talked about Austalia with my wife and she's quite concerned about sharks and other scaring animals in Australia, or maybee she was afraid of aboriginals or something. So Australia was the first small attempt and the second place I could imagine my family should enjoy was Canada. We got a long winter in front of us to think about living somewhere else. I don't know why they are hesitating, I like the swedish winter, they don't! They should persuade me that we should move to Austalia :) Otherwise I think Canada is the english speaking country most like sweden. But who says we must have it exatly like in sweden, then we better stay at home! I think I start with my son aged 13, he's easy to handle, he knows that Australia plays soccer much better than Canada! And the english dialect are more fun in Aus. A question, who is the wizard from Oz?
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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As I told Chris I've talked about Austalia with my wife and she's quite concerned about sharks and other scaring animals in Australia, or maybee she was afraid of aboriginals or something. So Australia was the first small attempt and the second place I could imagine my family should enjoy was Canada. We got a long winter in front of us to think about living somewhere else. I don't know why they are hesitating, I like the swedish winter, they don't! They should persuade me that we should move to Austalia :) Otherwise I think Canada is the english speaking country most like sweden. But who says we must have it exatly like in sweden, then we better stay at home! I think I start with my son aged 13, he's easy to handle, he knows that Australia plays soccer much better than Canada! And the english dialect are more fun in Aus. A question, who is the wizard from Oz?
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
Yeah fortunately Canberra is inland, so there are not too many sharks around! :) There are loads of feroceous kangaroo's around. There is a major IT skills crisis here in Canberra - a department is moving to Adelaide as enough IT skills cannot be found here. Also we have a lovely cold winter of only about -7 degrees. If you love 4 seasons, this is the place, gorgeous autumns. Also, if your son is serious about soccar the sports institute is here. New Zealand is also a very nice place to live. I lived in Wellington for just over a year. New Zealand has many hot spas. All the best in your quest! It's a tough choice - I know.
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In my personal opinion.... Europe is 5* and Canada is 3* when it comes to people, family, social life and raising children. but Canada it's a little bit better when it comes about jobs, and USA it's even better and you can make double the money you make in Canada. So at this point you decide what's best for your you. But if you really want to move to Canada I suggest Calgary because that is a city that is starting to go better and better, more and more jobs and good pay. That's where the BOOM is happening. A lot of programmers moved to Clagary lately because they got really good jobs. Besides that.. there are mountains and nice things to see (comparing to where I live - flat like my hand) so your children could enjoy that. Again... this is my personal opinion.
Everybody here got their personal opinion and I'm fascinated by the huge bunch of answers I've got! Yes, better wages in US but maybee less good family life. We like to travel by bike when in our small town Örebro (just 120 000 citizens). But then I maybee must go to work by car for 30 kms or so if we should live in a small town like that. Now I have some pros and cons for Calgary, a lot of opinons!
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Thank you very much for your nice answer! Soon I can write a complete tourist guide for non-canadians intersted in canada. Montreal sounds very french to me but I trust you they are english speaking most of them. I will tell my family we have to go for a hliday to Canada next summer!
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
Håkan Nilsson wrote:
Montreal sounds very french to me
Montreal is sure "frenchier" than other parts of canada but for your information, I work on the west side of the island and a lot of my coworkers are not even speaking a bit of french, neither does their children. So, it is not true that you must understand french to live in montreal. Many restaurants, store and facilities if not all of them requires bilingual worker. Espescially on the west side of the island. Well, I am a french canadian (by that I mean that I learned english in the regular scholarship classes) and I think my english is not too bad. I'm also only 24 years old so I've time to improve my english skills.
Jean-Michel Aubin Software Engineer Imaging division Matrox Electronics Ltee.
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Canadians out there and the rest of you who knews a lot of Canada, help me! I'm thinking about taking two or three years abroad with my family - wife and three children. Main reasons are: the children will learn proper english and we want to see something more than sweden for a longer time. We have just been traveling in Europe on our vacations, we have never been in the States or Canada, but I think Canada could be just fine. We live in Örebro, Sweden and if you look on the map and follow the latitude you will find yourself in southern Alaska, but we got about 20-30 degrees summertime and minus 5-25 wintertime. Now to the questions: 1) Which town should we head for? Criterias: English as 1:st language, there are soccer teams for my sons to play in (8, 13 years old). Some of us like hot temperatures at summertime and cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime. We like skiing both downhill and cross country (ok, I like both, rest if the family just downhill :)) There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees). We want to travel mostly by bike to school or work. Oh, what a list of demands! :-D 2) Working? How is the market for DBA:s / SQL Server programmers? My wife is occupational therapist, but maybee she could do something different just for fun halftime or so. 3) Get paid? What about the wages for senior developers/DBA:s 4) Administration, papers, permissions, formalia and... and so on. What do we need Anyone? All comments are welcome!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
Getting back to the original question - Where should you go for a year - the only sensible answer (if you want to work) is ALBERTA (Calgary or Edmonton). Temperatures are in your range - + 20 to +30c in Summer, -10 to -40C in Winter. The best skiing in the world in the Rockies (Choose Calgary for easiest access to Banff, or Edmonton for family skiing in Jasper) Plenty of work (Remember the word OIL) Bathing - (You want 18c water when it's -30c out side?) I assume you mean public swimming pools - Lots of them, or (for outdoors in winter) there are the hot springs in the Rockies (Banff or Jasper) Other things - The easiest way to get a work permit (this is NOT the EEC - you're a foreigner and need a permit) is to emigrate. You don't have to stay - but if you want to, you can. Mostly, it's the easiest way to get permission to work here is to say you're thinking of moving to Canada permanently. Good Luck DavidGB
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Getting back to the original question - Where should you go for a year - the only sensible answer (if you want to work) is ALBERTA (Calgary or Edmonton). Temperatures are in your range - + 20 to +30c in Summer, -10 to -40C in Winter. The best skiing in the world in the Rockies (Choose Calgary for easiest access to Banff, or Edmonton for family skiing in Jasper) Plenty of work (Remember the word OIL) Bathing - (You want 18c water when it's -30c out side?) I assume you mean public swimming pools - Lots of them, or (for outdoors in winter) there are the hot springs in the Rockies (Banff or Jasper) Other things - The easiest way to get a work permit (this is NOT the EEC - you're a foreigner and need a permit) is to emigrate. You don't have to stay - but if you want to, you can. Mostly, it's the easiest way to get permission to work here is to say you're thinking of moving to Canada permanently. Good Luck DavidGB
We go bathing in the summer and avoids swimming pools. Sometimes wintertime I do like the finnish guys use to: first som training, then sauna and a bath outside maybe +7 in water and then sauna again. This is a national tradition among our neighbours the finnish people. On Thursday I go to Island for six days and three days leisure, they got a lot of hot springs, I've nevere tested this before. Hmmm, oil for most swedish people means Dallas and JR Ewing :laugh: I've got a lot diskussions with my family before anything is decided. Thanks for your answers!
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
Montreal sounds very french to me
Montreal is sure "frenchier" than other parts of canada but for your information, I work on the west side of the island and a lot of my coworkers are not even speaking a bit of french, neither does their children. So, it is not true that you must understand french to live in montreal. Many restaurants, store and facilities if not all of them requires bilingual worker. Espescially on the west side of the island. Well, I am a french canadian (by that I mean that I learned english in the regular scholarship classes) and I think my english is not too bad. I'm also only 24 years old so I've time to improve my english skills.
Jean-Michel Aubin Software Engineer Imaging division Matrox Electronics Ltee.
I'm 39 (soon) and I'm not that entusiastic to learn french, but I know it's hard to avoid this if we move. That will be some kind of bonus :) The main language for my children to learn is still english.
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Vancouver is ok if you like rain and trafic jams. If you want hot temperatures, sunshine and skiing, then you want the Okanagan valley, Penticton or Kelowna British Columbia. Try www.silicon-vineyard.com Craig
OK, I have a look, thanks!
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Sounds like Kelowna, BC is what you are after. Water skiing, snow skiing, mountain biking. Winters are mild and rarely hit -10. Summers are pleasant with July reaching 30 on a regular basis. Population is around 100,000 and we have a international airport. Job market is a little tougher but if you're the best there is then you won't have a hard time finding work. Housing market is comparable with Calgary and some parts of Vancouver. Not much in the way of rentals.
I like the small town life, Örebro is about 120' citizens and good communications to stockholm and Gothenburg, but we are in-country, so we really miss the seaside :^) We got lakes too but really good natural bathing is 60 kms away. What's nearest biggest town to Kelowa and distance in km?
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Hi Håkan, 1) Based on your criteria I would consider either Vancouver or Ottawa. Ottawa can get cold in the winter (below -10C would be normal in January and February), but on the other hand if you like the outdoors there are lots of winter sports. Vancouver is rainy all winter (like never see the sun for four months), but comparitively warm. In the summer both are great. Vancouver has the ocean and mountains and warm weather, Ottawa has hot weather and lakes and rivers and hills. Ottawa is fairly close to Montreal and Toronto, and a reasonable drive away from interesting American cities like Boston and New York. Vancouver is close to Seattle. Vancouver is a big city, so you might drive a lot, depending on where you live. Ottawa is a smaller city (< 1M), so it is easy to bike to work or downtown or into the countryside. Vancouver housing is very expensive (by Canadian standards), Ottawa's is reasonable. 2) Both Vancouver and Ottawa have good high tech communities. Ottawa's is large due to the telecom and government sectors. Healthcare workers are in demand in Canada, but as someone else noted you need to be careful the professional qualifications will be portable. My impression is that European degrees are recognized, but the specifics vary from province to province, since health care is a provincial responsibility. 3) Wages vary a lot depending on industry and specific company. A senior developer could be anywhere from C$80k to C$120k. I think the salary for an occupational therapist would be around the $50k range. 4) I'm not sure about the immigration paperwork, being a native myself. Canada gives preference to skilled workers. Have a look at this government web site for lots of good info: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/index.html I hope this helps. Good luck! Regards, Doug
Ottawa sounds nice! I do now think I will leave the west coast behind, but then someone suggested Kelowna BC, so it's not easy for me to sit here and think about places I've never seen. We have to take a long summer holiday in Canada next year!
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Sounds like you are describing Vancouver. In the winter you can go up to the mountains for skiing etc. Your sons can play soccer, there is plenty of work. However it is a big city so if that's not what you're after you might not want to live there. Lot's of people go to Toronto, I lived there for a while, it sucks unless all you want is a big city. The people are hugely self obsessed, the weather isn't pleasant and any possibility of going to unspoiled nature just doesn't exist within any reasonable distance. You might as well live in any city if you pick Toronto. I've always heard good things about the eastern coast of Canada, it's should also meet your criteria. It's not as affluent an economy as western Canada, but the nature is supposed to be nice, no big mountains of course, at least not by what we could call them out west here. Honestly you have no hope unless you travel here first and go to the major areas of interest. In general most europeans that are into nature seem to end up in the far north of Canada, I know a *lot* of people living in North Eastern B.C. from Europe who enjoy the outdoors, hunting, fishing that kind of thing and still work as computer network techs etc becasue of the oil and gas industry there where there is a lot of work for all sorts of professions.
Vancouver was raining all winter someone said... You are right we have to take a long summer holiday in Canada before deciding anything.
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Sounds like the little brother to Aus. What's for my family there, except the nature? We enjoy soccer, volleyball, many forms of skiing among other outdoor interests.
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
A question, who is the wizard from Oz?
Do you mean the "Wizard of Oz"? If so, it's the title of an old US movie (and book series), as well as a character from the same. Still a fairly good family movie, if on the long side.
Of course, it's one of my favourite films, ssen it > 5 times. The question was really why do we call Australia Oz, and what should the wizard do in Australia? I expected folks to read 'between the lines' :)
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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Yeah fortunately Canberra is inland, so there are not too many sharks around! :) There are loads of feroceous kangaroo's around. There is a major IT skills crisis here in Canberra - a department is moving to Adelaide as enough IT skills cannot be found here. Also we have a lovely cold winter of only about -7 degrees. If you love 4 seasons, this is the place, gorgeous autumns. Also, if your son is serious about soccar the sports institute is here. New Zealand is also a very nice place to live. I lived in Wellington for just over a year. New Zealand has many hot spas. All the best in your quest! It's a tough choice - I know.
My son is really into soccer, 13 year, training all days... so there must be good teams around otherwise he go home with the first flight. He's quite big (177 cms) and plays with older players) Here in Sweden we have lot's of young unemployed academic IT pros, maybe I should send them to you?
Håkan Nilsson -- Swedish developer, DBA, C#, SQL Server, soccer trainer, C64 player
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I live in Nova Scotia Canada and will can answer these questions for you. Now to the questions: 1) Which town should we head for? Criterias: English as 1:st language, there are soccer teams for my sons to play in (8, 13 years old). > Yes there are socceer programs everywhere in Canada. Some of us like hot temperatures at summertime and cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime. > yes, that is Canada's range off temperatures. 20-30 degrees celcius in summer and (0-20) below in the winter with an average of 0. We like skiing both downhill and cross country (ok, I like both, rest if the family just downhill ) > Western Canada has some of the most spectacular skiiing in the world. We have skiiing on the east cost but its laughable next to the west. There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees). > Out West Maybe. We want to travel mostly by bike to school or work. Oh, what a list of demands! > No problem. Can do that anywhere you wish. We have a lot of land however so you'll have to do that math on travel time. 2) Working? How is the market for DBA:s / SQL Server programmers? Good! Especially now. Should have no problem. My wife is occupational therapist, but maybee she could do something different just for fun halftime or so. > Should have no problem. 3) Get paid? What about the wages for senior developers/DBA:s > Salary - 40,000 (a living) to 100,000 (nice) 4) Administration, papers, permissions, formalia and... and so on. What do we need Dunno really. Go to http://canada.gc.ca/ and snoop around. One more thing. East coast is a very friendly place to live. The west is nice but not quite as friendly. Culture is nice everywhere though and we have won "Best Country to live in" 4 years in a row. ;-) Come on over.:-D
Bill Jennings
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I would suggest looking at Ottawa as an option. It's the nations capital and located in Ontario but on the border with Quebec. The city on the Quebec side is Hull and there is a mountain range very close. Both French and English is spoken extensively in the Ottawa/Hull area. Maybe a bit colder than you like in the winter but summer is really nice. Close by is the town of Kanata which is a bit of a hub for IT and technology companies.
Mark Buchanan Giffels Associates Ltd.
I didn't though about Ottawa but that would be a great choice I think. It is a wonderfull city, being at the same time classic and modern. There is plenty of facilities and people living there usualy work for the federal governement or for some other agencies. It is well located as well, on the river Outaouais, and is 1h30 north of Montreal (I don't know from Toronto). I think it got is international air port but receive usualy more continental flight than overseas. I think you could also apply for a job for the federal governement there, there is surely some kind of programs to hire foreign workers. Once you'll get in the box, you could easily get your citizenship if your bosses back you. And don't worry for english in the Quebec's area of Hull (now Gatineau), people there tend to be more bilingual.