Vista pricing leaked (all prices in US dollars)
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Those new Macs are looking nicer every day, and Linux tools and apps are getting better all the time. I think it's time to change platforms; Microsoft has finally lost its last, feeble grip on reality.
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Actually, paying for the full cycle of Mac upgrades would cost you more.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Roger Wright wrote:
Those new Macs are looking nicer every day
Funny thing about that is the MacOS has always been cheaper. It's just the hardware that's not. Walk into a CompUSA and price the two. It's kinda funny to see actually. [edit] Don't forget you'll see it already has the functionality of Vista too, and more. Yeah, I had to throw that in. :rolleyes: [/edit]
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Funny thing about that is the MacOS has always been cheaper.
Yes, but you pay that cheaper cost much more frequently. (Though, to be honest, I'd gladly pay Microsoft more frequently if they'd release more stable releases.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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MS has always been overpriced, going all the way back to DOS. It seems inline with earlier releases when you account for inflation. My main concern is all the hidden costs associated with the upgrade. I wonder how many programs will break under the new release, forcing an upgrade.
I strongly disagree. Compared to other operating systems, Microsoft's have been remarkably cheap. Compared to other software, it's even cheaper. (A good game costs $50 new and can usually be played through within 30 hours of gameplay at the most. If you want a real heart attack, look at prices for Game Boy Advance games.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Funny thing about that is the MacOS has always been cheaper.
Yes, but you pay that cheaper cost much more frequently. (Though, to be honest, I'd gladly pay Microsoft more frequently if they'd release more stable releases.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Yes, but you pay that cheaper cost much more frequently.
Nobody sticks a gun to customer's heads to make them upgrade the OS. But yeah, realistically though people do want to though; at least I know I would.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Though, to be honest, I'd gladly pay Microsoft more frequently if they'd release more stable releases.
Hear, hear!
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Actually, paying for the full cycle of Mac upgrades would cost you more.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
With Windows you get a few OS releases and a lot of service pack *updates* that just fix the bugs and update IE. With Macs you get more OS releases with new features and service pack *updates* to fix the bugs.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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I strongly disagree. Compared to other operating systems, Microsoft's have been remarkably cheap. Compared to other software, it's even cheaper. (A good game costs $50 new and can usually be played through within 30 hours of gameplay at the most. If you want a real heart attack, look at prices for Game Boy Advance games.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
A good game costs $50 new and can usually be played through within 30 hours of gameplay at the most. If you want a real heart attack, look at prices for Game Boy Advance games.
Yeah, it's crazy to think about that. Of course, a game is typically a very complex peice of software, but still.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Apple is missing an opportunity here. If they would refactor OS-X to be compatible with PC's (without raising the price), they could steal a lot of current Windows AND future Linux customers...
It would be neat, but I don't know if it'll happen. Their claim to fame has always been ease of use. One of the benefits of this is they control what goes into the machines, drivers, what needs to be in the OS that it runs with, etc. Using Macs is not like using Windows, where the driver you get is crap, etc. Use a default b/c the hardware you got isn't supported (think 64-bit support) and what not. You just plug the stuff in and it works - end of story. I do agree though. They'd probably be in a great position right now, more than ever, to steal some Windows market share if they dumped this restriction. But, to open it up like that means it'll have to face some of the same issues as Windows, possible BSOD b/c of bad drivers by other manufacturers, etc. Then again, I could be blowing smoke out my ass b/c I don't know the internals of MacOS. Maybe it has better fault tolerance for all I know. But with MS overcharging and under delivering and just copying off of Macs anyway, I'd love to see some real competition hit MS strong. Even if it made MS stop jacking us around, we'd still benifit from it no matter what happens.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies. This would have the advantage of greater control over the hardware, but would reduce costs. I'd bet Dell is in talks with Apple as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if HP/Compaq is as well.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Even if it made MS stop jacking us around, we'd still benifit from it no matter what happens.
It's when any company has competition that they makes their best products. (Without Airbus, I doubt Boeing would be creating the awesome jets they are today.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies. This would have the advantage of greater control over the hardware, but would reduce costs. I'd bet Dell is in talks with Apple as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if HP/Compaq is as well.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Even if it made MS stop jacking us around, we'd still benifit from it no matter what happens.
It's when any company has competition that they makes their best products. (Without Airbus, I doubt Boeing would be creating the awesome jets they are today.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
It's when any company has competition that they makes their best products.
Totally. MS may not like the competition, but I think the consumers would benifit from it no matter what ends up happening.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Apple is missing an opportunity here. If they would refactor OS-X to be compatible with PC's (without raising the price), they could steal a lot of current Windows AND future Linux customers...
It would be neat, but I don't know if it'll happen. Their claim to fame has always been ease of use. One of the benefits of this is they control what goes into the machines, drivers, what needs to be in the OS that it runs with, etc. Using Macs is not like using Windows, where the driver you get is crap, etc. Use a default b/c the hardware you got isn't supported (think 64-bit support) and what not. You just plug the stuff in and it works - end of story. I do agree though. They'd probably be in a great position right now, more than ever, to steal some Windows market share if they dumped this restriction. But, to open it up like that means it'll have to face some of the same issues as Windows, possible BSOD b/c of bad drivers by other manufacturers, etc. Then again, I could be blowing smoke out my ass b/c I don't know the internals of MacOS. Maybe it has better fault tolerance for all I know. But with MS overcharging and under delivering and just copying off of Macs anyway, I'd love to see some real competition hit MS strong. Even if it made MS stop jacking us around, we'd still benifit from it no matter what happens.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
OS-x is based on a BSD core - essentially Unix. The reason their OS works so well is because Apple has intentionally restricted what hardware their systems support. Notice that all of their graphics cards are ATI. All of their machines use the same onboard NIC/sound components. USB, SATA and IDE are standards, so there's no driver issues there. The sticky issues arise when you start talking about RAID, or any add-on card. If they simply choose to support one or two raid cards and add nVidia and VESA to the supported video cards, they would have few (if any) problems porting OS-X to non-apple hardware.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies. This would have the advantage of greater control over the hardware, but would reduce costs. I'd bet Dell is in talks with Apple as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if HP/Compaq is as well.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Even if it made MS stop jacking us around, we'd still benifit from it no matter what happens.
It's when any company has competition that they makes their best products. (Without Airbus, I doubt Boeing would be creating the awesome jets they are today.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies.
They tried this some years ago. The problem was that the hardware division was more profitable than the OS div (IIRC the OS was actaully a loss leader). Once it was seen that the clones were eating into apple's marketshare they killed the program.
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OS-x is based on a BSD core - essentially Unix. The reason their OS works so well is because Apple has intentionally restricted what hardware their systems support. Notice that all of their graphics cards are ATI. All of their machines use the same onboard NIC/sound components. USB, SATA and IDE are standards, so there's no driver issues there. The sticky issues arise when you start talking about RAID, or any add-on card. If they simply choose to support one or two raid cards and add nVidia and VESA to the supported video cards, they would have few (if any) problems porting OS-X to non-apple hardware.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
OS-x is based on a BSD core - essentially Unix.
I loooooove Unix stability, but even faulty drivers for Unix can bring it to a halt. The main difference is, unlike Windows, it's a LOT easier to recover from.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The reason their OS works so well is because Apple has intentionally restricted what hardware their systems support.
Yup
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Notice that all of their graphics cards are ATI.
Well, their higher stuff at least uses nVidia cards. Or at least you can choose the option of them when configuring one on apple.com, so they gotta be supported.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
USB, SATA and IDE are standards, so there's no driver issues there.
Yeah true.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The sticky issues arise when you start talking about RAID
There's already RAID support for MacOS X Server. Maybe the workstation version has it too (I don't know). I'd like the think so, I just haven't looked into it.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
they would have few (if any) problems porting OS-X to non-apple hardware.
Well, I don't think the porting would be the problem. I think the stuff written for Macs after they did would be like faulty drivers made from a 3rd party. I do like Joe's halfway idea though, it's probably one of the only few ways to get and get the best of both worlds.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies.
They tried this some years ago. The problem was that the hardware division was more profitable than the OS div (IIRC the OS was actaully a loss leader). Once it was seen that the clones were eating into apple's marketshare they killed the program.
dan neely wrote:
Once it was seen that the clones were eating into apple's marketshare they killed the program.
Maybe they can find a different way to restructure it to keep them in the loop?
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Jan R Hansen wrote:
actually, you can buy an oem version with "any" hardware. E.g. a mouse.
Not anymore. That was changed about a year ago. Apparently it now has to be pre-installed. Check out the Microsoft OEM site[^] for details (specifically the 2nd FAQ on the right). Cheers, Drew.
That is not true, I see all the usual computer stores selling OEM Windows. Like tigerdirect.com and so on. The main difference between OEM and Retail Windows is call in support and stuff.
static int Sqrt(int x) { if (x<0) throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException(); int temp, y=0, b=0x8000, bshft=15, v=x; do { if (v>=(temp=(y<<1)+b<>=1)>0); return y; :omg:
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
I do think Apple could come up with a half-way method, like licensing their hardware security to select companies.
They tried this some years ago. The problem was that the hardware division was more profitable than the OS div (IIRC the OS was actaully a loss leader). Once it was seen that the clones were eating into apple's marketshare they killed the program.
Yeah, I remember those days. Some of the cloners were making better hardware at a fraction of the cost (though some were making crap.) Their desktop market is doing poorly (their recent sales increases were in MacBooks) so I could see them farming that out to Dell or HP. I do NOT see them licensing the security hardware for laptop use though.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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That is not true, I see all the usual computer stores selling OEM Windows. Like tigerdirect.com and so on. The main difference between OEM and Retail Windows is call in support and stuff.
static int Sqrt(int x) { if (x<0) throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException(); int temp, y=0, b=0x8000, bshft=15, v=x; do { if (v>=(temp=(y<<1)+b<>=1)>0); return y; :omg:
Henize wrote:
That is not true, I see all the usual computer stores selling OEM Windows. Like tigerdirect.com and so on. The main difference between OEM and Retail Windows is call in support and stuff.
MS can't enforce it easily, but technically those sales are breaking the licensing agreement. YOu've also got places like newegg.com that will suggest buying a $1 4pin molex Y splitter to meet the hardware requirement.
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That is not true, I see all the usual computer stores selling OEM Windows. Like tigerdirect.com and so on. The main difference between OEM and Retail Windows is call in support and stuff.
static int Sqrt(int x) { if (x<0) throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException(); int temp, y=0, b=0x8000, bshft=15, v=x; do { if (v>=(temp=(y<<1)+b<>=1)>0); return y; :omg:
Henize wrote:
That is not true
Well, read it for yourself at the link I provided. I'd say if the Microsoft License Agreement says it's so, then it is true. I checked tigerdirect and you're right - they are selling them the way you say. Maybe they have lots of older stock or maybe they are just blatently violating the license agreement. Who knows. Cheers, Drew.
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System: ASRock 939Dual Sata2 motherboard with 2.10 BIOS AMD64X2 4200(not overclocked) 2GB Patriot PC3200 RAM (not overclocked) eVGA 7900GTX (not the overclocked one, and not overclocked by me) (brand new) hda=new Seagate 200gb EIDE (brand new) hdb=80gb Western Digital EIDE sda=SATA1 160gb Western Digital sdb=SATA2 160gb Western Digital cda=LITE-ON CD/DVD writer (brand new) keyboard and mouse are PS/2 19-inch LCD monitor with native resolution of 1280x1024. I'm using the onboard NIC. I'm using the onboard sound. SATA channels are setup as IDE. USB Legacy support is disabled. I've tried Ubuntu 6.06 (32-bit and 64-bit, including the alternate install CD, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu), Fedora Core 5, Debian, Suse 10.x, Gentoo, Knoppix, and PC Linux, and Mandriva 7 beta. I've checked each ISO before burning at different speeds to different brands of media. While my hardware is all new, I don't have anything in the box that jumps out and says "driver problem". The various live CD's (if the distro had one) boot up just fine, and even see my onboard NIC and sound devices. Fedora Core is the only distro that actually completed the install process, but it freezes during the boot process. I've changed the motherboard to a brand new copy of the same board. I've tried different versions of the BIOS from 1.5 all the way up to 2.1. I've tried THREE different CPUs (two single-core and one dual core). I've tried removing all but one stick of RAM. I've tried removing (well, disconnecting anyway) all other hard drives except the one I'm trying to install to. I've tried installing to FOUR different hard drives. Yes, the machine can run memtest all day long without any errors. Everyone I've asked (and I've posted on pretty much every Linux forum I thought would be helpful) says something like "Wow, that shouldn't be happening." I've had people suggest that I put a less-capable video card in the box. Well, that's where I draw the line - I shouldn't have to remove or disable ANY hardware to get an OS to install. Besides, if the Live CD boots up fine, that tells me the distro can handle the video card. Not a single distro refused to display. As you can see, I've tried a number of things, and nothing has worked - at all. I figure I've been more than patient about the whole things, and I have made what could be described as heroic efforts to get Linux installed on this box. It simply will NOT install, and nobody can tell me why... This is my first negative experience installin
we have pretty near the same system, at least as far as "general" specs go. I have dual onboard network, nForce4 motherboard, MSI based. I have a 7800GT rather than yours, but the nVidia drivers should be identicle for them once the nVidia card is recognized. I have Kingston memory chips, also 2 gigs worth, and a 4600 X2. All my hard drives are SATA, but one CDRW and one DVD+-RW are on the SATA IDE lines. I am running five hard-drives, all are recognized by Linux including the two that were Windows XP based. My 150gig Raptor is still XP as my primary boot. My 74Gig is currently Vista, but will soon be reformated back to Linux. My 37gig Raptor I pulled yesterday to give away to someone at work, has run Mepis 3.x (several versions), Redhat 4, Redhat 5, Ubuntu 6. I am planning on putting on a copy of Mepis 6 to replace Vista, based on Ubuntu 6, but has additional disks for other software to optionally load (and I will). We can trade specs, but it sounds like ASRock did something non-standard, which is where Linux does have problems. For instance some companies will make sound cards which are nothing but A to D converters and use the CPU to actually create the sound, meaning the drivers are doing more than "interfacing" they are actually producing the sound at a load on the CPU. Those type of drivers do not exist for Linux. I have seen companies do this for ethernet, sound, and various I/O devices. I have always had rapid and easy installs, Mepis has always been the easiest to use since it is designed to look "windows-like" to ease the transition. This is my 3rd state of the art motherboard to load Linux on, although now it is no longer state-of-the-art, I loaded Mepis and Redhat on the day I got it. I had four boots, Mepis, Redhat 4 (then), Windows XP 64, and Windows XP. I had no problem with any of the boots. The two Linux boots have been wiped and reloaded several times to try different versions, or for compatibility for work (Redhat disk). The other Linux is my play disk, see what is there, play with different flavors of Linux. I can't tell you what should or should not happen, I am certainly no Linux Guru. But from the day I bought this machine, I loaded Linux on it as well as Windows XP. I've had more problems with XP than with Linux. The biggest problem I have with Linux is there is just not enough stuff for it, and Wine still doesn't do enough to help (yet).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about thing
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Vista Home Basic - $233 Vista Home Premium - $269 ($180 for upgrade) Vista Business - $341 Vista Ultimate (has Media Center tools, Aero 3D GUI, and extra security technology) - $449 ($270 for upgrade) Are they out of their fucking minds?.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Is it an acciedental or 'wanted' leak of information?? Why should a site prepare for pricing information when the OS is still in pre-RC stage. I guess MS wanted to check the price-reaction at this rate. So that they can tage the pricing accordingly!!!!
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail."
- Abraham Maslow -
OEM or Retail?
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
What would Rammstein pay?
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Phew! If it's so expensive, noone wants to upgrade, so I don't have to test on Vista :cool:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
noone wants to upgrad
Yeah, I know your were joking, but the fact is all of us developers will be right in the middle of Vista since it will be shipped on almost every new computer. We all will be stuck making sure that our software works all versions. What a pain!!!!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Zune to be built by Toshiba
