What do I do now? [modified]
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I just did a desktop review of a guys code and sent him some comments. His code was not very good. I saw many potential problems, he used goto's a lot so it was confusing to follow, it wen't against the style guide, it had dead code, and statics so people couldn't use many generic and useful functions. I'm the software lead so I felt like I needed to say something. I e-mailed him, and only him my comments and I only commented on the code, not him personally. I made sure I didn't use the word "you" and re-read it 3 times to try to make it as anti-inflamtory as possible. He responded to my e-mail to everyone, peer's and bosses, with some pointed, personal comments toward me and some about my comments. Also comments about why he did some of what he did (which had no software basis). I'm going to talk to him after lunch (I'm in a different building). Any suggestions on what I say to him? I'll talk about the style guide, but what about the crappy code? I'm used to more rational people. Joe Q -- modified at 13:41 Tuesday 31st October, 2006 [CONTINUED] I really appreciate the advice, I'm going to talk to him now. Calmly, breath deeply, don't say "you're fired" (Actually I can't back that one up anyway), be professional, use the facts only and talk only about the code. Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
Joe Q wrote:
Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
"Over the Mountains Of the Moon, Down the Valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied- "If you seek for Eldorado!"
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I just did a desktop review of a guys code and sent him some comments. His code was not very good. I saw many potential problems, he used goto's a lot so it was confusing to follow, it wen't against the style guide, it had dead code, and statics so people couldn't use many generic and useful functions. I'm the software lead so I felt like I needed to say something. I e-mailed him, and only him my comments and I only commented on the code, not him personally. I made sure I didn't use the word "you" and re-read it 3 times to try to make it as anti-inflamtory as possible. He responded to my e-mail to everyone, peer's and bosses, with some pointed, personal comments toward me and some about my comments. Also comments about why he did some of what he did (which had no software basis). I'm going to talk to him after lunch (I'm in a different building). Any suggestions on what I say to him? I'll talk about the style guide, but what about the crappy code? I'm used to more rational people. Joe Q -- modified at 13:41 Tuesday 31st October, 2006 [CONTINUED] I really appreciate the advice, I'm going to talk to him now. Calmly, breath deeply, don't say "you're fired" (Actually I can't back that one up anyway), be professional, use the facts only and talk only about the code. Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
Good luck !!! Sounds like he has a lot of growing up to do, and hopefully he'll learn from the experience. If you've pointed out problems in the code, you have to hope he knows you're right, even if he's pretending otherwise.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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It's true. I wrote to only him. when he responded, he added all the other software, hardware, leads, and bosses names on to the email for the reply. I can't figure out why.
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That's this guy. He's also the RTFM guy that I ranted about some earlier this month. He doesn't seem to learn.
How long has this person been employed with your company and what are his terms of employment. What are your company's disciplinary procedures. /edit/ Oops, just read some postings below - he appears to be more senior than you. Either put up with it or move on to another job. You are likely to run into a brick wall called upper management who clearly show confidence in this person. /edit/ -- modified at 15:00 Tuesday 31st October, 2006
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Marc Clifton wrote:
"please do it this way" and you look a week later at their code, and no difference.
I've been there. One of my former co-workers just seemed to write the same code regardless of the project, language or, requirements. You try to be helpful and show them a better way and you might as well be talking to the wall.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
Chris Austin wrote:
A human being should be able to change a diaper...
Your sig is particularly appropriate for this thread. :-D Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I just did a desktop review of a guys code and sent him some comments. His code was not very good. I saw many potential problems, he used goto's a lot so it was confusing to follow, it wen't against the style guide, it had dead code, and statics so people couldn't use many generic and useful functions. I'm the software lead so I felt like I needed to say something. I e-mailed him, and only him my comments and I only commented on the code, not him personally. I made sure I didn't use the word "you" and re-read it 3 times to try to make it as anti-inflamtory as possible. He responded to my e-mail to everyone, peer's and bosses, with some pointed, personal comments toward me and some about my comments. Also comments about why he did some of what he did (which had no software basis). I'm going to talk to him after lunch (I'm in a different building). Any suggestions on what I say to him? I'll talk about the style guide, but what about the crappy code? I'm used to more rational people. Joe Q -- modified at 13:41 Tuesday 31st October, 2006 [CONTINUED] I really appreciate the advice, I'm going to talk to him now. Calmly, breath deeply, don't say "you're fired" (Actually I can't back that one up anyway), be professional, use the facts only and talk only about the code. Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
Joe Q wrote:
I'm used to more rational people.
Congratulations!
Joe Q wrote:
Any suggestions on what I say to him?
Suggest that he come to work with my company, sounds like he would fit right in. I had a developer tell me he didn't believe in Software Design Patterns.
led mike
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Leslie Sanford wrote:
You're the software lead and he is a junior programmer (I assume). He took what was suppose to be a private exchange between the two of you public. Is this correct?
Correct, partially. He was the one who took it public. But he's also more senior than me. I think it's stuff like this that's kept him from advancing.
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It's true. I wrote to only him. when he responded, he added all the other software, hardware, leads, and bosses names on to the email for the reply. I can't figure out why.
I'm sure it's because he felt he was being picked on, but in fact, all he's done is make himself look stupid.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I just did a desktop review of a guys code and sent him some comments. His code was not very good. I saw many potential problems, he used goto's a lot so it was confusing to follow, it wen't against the style guide, it had dead code, and statics so people couldn't use many generic and useful functions. I'm the software lead so I felt like I needed to say something. I e-mailed him, and only him my comments and I only commented on the code, not him personally. I made sure I didn't use the word "you" and re-read it 3 times to try to make it as anti-inflamtory as possible. He responded to my e-mail to everyone, peer's and bosses, with some pointed, personal comments toward me and some about my comments. Also comments about why he did some of what he did (which had no software basis). I'm going to talk to him after lunch (I'm in a different building). Any suggestions on what I say to him? I'll talk about the style guide, but what about the crappy code? I'm used to more rational people. Joe Q -- modified at 13:41 Tuesday 31st October, 2006 [CONTINUED] I really appreciate the advice, I'm going to talk to him now. Calmly, breath deeply, don't say "you're fired" (Actually I can't back that one up anyway), be professional, use the facts only and talk only about the code. Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
OK - you're already back, I guess, but: (a) As Software lead you can demand him to rules of conduct. They are not so easy to handle (esp. if you are used to "rational" people) but it is important to make clear that you won't tolerate this behavior (getting personal, "broadcasting" without trying to solve this on a person-to-person level). (b) Don't argue about "why"'s as long as he isn't willing to accept your / the coding standards final decision in a disagreement. Don't let him drag you down to having to justify each and every point oif the coding standard, or your decisions if he isn't willing to cooperate. Bring it up with the boss. He made it public, make sure he also hears your point. Be rational, At least that's what I think. Now going to read what others say.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
That was my first thought. Then I remembered how much I hated reviewing resumes and spending several of the teams hours interviewing candidates.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
That's still much better than dragging someone along who eats more resources than he provides benefits. I don't think a "first offense" should result in "you're fired" - but it's finally best for you and your team.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
That's still much better than dragging someone along who eats more resources than he provides benefits. I don't think a "first offense" should result in "you're fired" - but it's finally best for you and your team.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistI agree 100%. I just hate the hiring process.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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Fire him and get someone who a) can code b) isn't 5 years old
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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I just did a desktop review of a guys code and sent him some comments. His code was not very good. I saw many potential problems, he used goto's a lot so it was confusing to follow, it wen't against the style guide, it had dead code, and statics so people couldn't use many generic and useful functions. I'm the software lead so I felt like I needed to say something. I e-mailed him, and only him my comments and I only commented on the code, not him personally. I made sure I didn't use the word "you" and re-read it 3 times to try to make it as anti-inflamtory as possible. He responded to my e-mail to everyone, peer's and bosses, with some pointed, personal comments toward me and some about my comments. Also comments about why he did some of what he did (which had no software basis). I'm going to talk to him after lunch (I'm in a different building). Any suggestions on what I say to him? I'll talk about the style guide, but what about the crappy code? I'm used to more rational people. Joe Q -- modified at 13:41 Tuesday 31st October, 2006 [CONTINUED] I really appreciate the advice, I'm going to talk to him now. Calmly, breath deeply, don't say "you're fired" (Actually I can't back that one up anyway), be professional, use the facts only and talk only about the code. Thanks, and now...into the abyss!
You've received a lot of great advice. The only thing I can add is to avoid doing this by email in the future. Perhaps you can type up your comments inside an email, without sending it. Then, give him a call and ask him to meet with you in your office to discuss your concerns. You can go over each of the points you typed with him in person, hopefully for a more friendly and polite exchange. It will help you understand why he wrote his code that way, and help him undestand why you feel he shouldn't have. At the end, when all the points have been ironed out, you may wish to send him what's left of the email to him as a reminder of what he should fix or shouldn't do in the future. That's how I would have approached the situation. Regards, Alvaro
God existing isn't entirely impossible, but there's absolutely no evidence for it, so... the personal God as described by the Christian Bible existing is just as likely as a Pink Unicorn having created the universe, oh.. say... last Thursday. It's equally possible the moon has a core made of cheese. It's equally possible this sentence is in Spanish when you're not looking. - Someone on the Internet
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I agree, go donald trump on his ass. And when you do, don't forget the little hand gesture he does. 'your (hand motion) fired'. It takes some practice but if you get it right it's worth the extra effort. :)
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I agree, go donald trump on his ass. And when you do, don't forget the little hand gesture he does. 'your (hand motion) fired'. It takes some practice but if you get it right it's worth the extra effort. :)
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If you're going to insult the person while firing him, make sure you've got a rentacop along for backup.
was a joke. You'd have to see the show to realize how campy it is when he does it.
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There have been many problems with this guy before. The company policy is to not get rid of any one because of incompatance, just for not following policies.
Joe Q wrote:
The company policy is to not get rid of any one because of incompatance, just for not following policies.
Yeah right! This way they (the company) can keep de crap as the good ones get tired of doing everythng and decide to move elsewhere!! Good Policy!! :D
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was a joke. You'd have to see the show to realize how campy it is when he does it.
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There have been many problems with this guy before. The company policy is to not get rid of any one because of incompatance, just for not following policies.
He's and ideal candidate for a promotion to managment then.
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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He's and ideal candidate for a promotion to managment then.
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill