Shortage of S/W professionals
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rah_sin wrote:
Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide
I think it is more a shortage of "good" people rather than a general shortage. Each job that gets advertised always has a lot of candidates. The trouble is that most are pretty poor and lack the skills needed to do a job. A good grade from university doesn't make for a good hire, but it can be an indication of the person's work-ethic.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
I think it is more a shortage of "good" people rather than a general shortage.
Here it's a shortage of "cheap" people hence the offshoring and importation using the H1-B system. H1-Bs are also heavily used in companies started by immigrants. They'd rather hire cousin Moe than deal with the locals.
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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rah_sin wrote:
Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide
I think it is more a shortage of "good" people rather than a general shortage. Each job that gets advertised always has a lot of candidates. The trouble is that most are pretty poor and lack the skills needed to do a job. A good grade from university doesn't make for a good hire, but it can be an indication of the person's work-ethic.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Hear, hear! What would make a standout candidate in my book, were I hiring an entry-level candidate today and staring at a stack of applications, would be someone that has had an internship with some specific accomplishments on it. Frankly, having grown up on the university, spent eight years learning there, and even taught there, I don't put much faith on seeing someone that has all the 'little check-box' course-work done with good grades. Meaningless. Now give me someone with one or more summers of practical experience I can weigh, that's something. Then I'll look at the other candidates. And, were I restricted to evaluating on the basis of course-work and grades, I'd also be looking for a candidate with course-work in other disciplines. A bit of economics, psychology, anthropology or sociology, all have applications in software engineering. Some might be puzzled at the three 'soft-sciences' but they have applications in creating requirements and evaluating software usability. I used anthropological interviewing methods quite a bit in doing my system analyses here for process re-engineering, designing software, and evaluating the final result for improvements. Microsoft and others have engaged anthropologists so I'm not barking mad here, just thirty years ahead of the curve. [Thanks, Mom!] There are other candidates as well if you will be eventually targeting work in a certain industry. Just a few random thoughts. There's quite a few more tips I've picked up over the years.
-Bri "The most deadly words for an engineer. 'I have an idea.'"
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Hear, hear! What would make a standout candidate in my book, were I hiring an entry-level candidate today and staring at a stack of applications, would be someone that has had an internship with some specific accomplishments on it. Frankly, having grown up on the university, spent eight years learning there, and even taught there, I don't put much faith on seeing someone that has all the 'little check-box' course-work done with good grades. Meaningless. Now give me someone with one or more summers of practical experience I can weigh, that's something. Then I'll look at the other candidates. And, were I restricted to evaluating on the basis of course-work and grades, I'd also be looking for a candidate with course-work in other disciplines. A bit of economics, psychology, anthropology or sociology, all have applications in software engineering. Some might be puzzled at the three 'soft-sciences' but they have applications in creating requirements and evaluating software usability. I used anthropological interviewing methods quite a bit in doing my system analyses here for process re-engineering, designing software, and evaluating the final result for improvements. Microsoft and others have engaged anthropologists so I'm not barking mad here, just thirty years ahead of the curve. [Thanks, Mom!] There are other candidates as well if you will be eventually targeting work in a certain industry. Just a few random thoughts. There's quite a few more tips I've picked up over the years.
-Bri "The most deadly words for an engineer. 'I have an idea.'"
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Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide but the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates are moving on roads,becouse companies are not giving them chance to work as they do not have good % of marks througt out there academic carrier. is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent? Is this the way companies are going to sort out this problem?
rahul
rah_sin wrote:
Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide but the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates are moving on roads,becouse companies are not giving them chance to work as they do not have good % of marks througt out there academic carrier.
It still makes me laugh that a company is more interested in that I got a 2:1 at Uni over the quality of my work over the past 10 years!
Never argue with an imbecile; they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
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I too agree with the concept that employer should not ask for the consistent academic record. They can ask for the good percentage in the last exam passed. Because if someone has not done good in any of the past exam due to some reason then he/she should not be prohibited from appearing in the interviews. BTW this can be my personal opinion. :)
Best Regards, Apurva Kaushal
Apurva Kaushal wrote:
I too agree with the concept that employer should not ask for the consistent academic record. They can ask for the good percentage in the last exam passed. Because if someone has not done good in any of the past exam due to some reason then he/she should not be prohibited from appearing in the interviews. BTW this can be my personal opinion.
I would imagine that job adverts get quite a lot of replies. Filtering CV's based on poor grades is probably just one of many ways of whittling the pile down to a few that the manager can be bothered to read. I admit that many a good candidate could get missed, but that's life unfortunately.
Never argue with an imbecile; they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
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Apurva Kaushal wrote:
I too agree with the concept that employer should not ask for the consistent academic record. They can ask for the good percentage in the last exam passed. Because if someone has not done good in any of the past exam due to some reason then he/she should not be prohibited from appearing in the interviews. BTW this can be my personal opinion.
I would imagine that job adverts get quite a lot of replies. Filtering CV's based on poor grades is probably just one of many ways of whittling the pile down to a few that the manager can be bothered to read. I admit that many a good candidate could get missed, but that's life unfortunately.
Never argue with an imbecile; they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
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rah_sin wrote:
is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent?
No. For starters, communication skills are important as well. ;)
rah_sin wrote:
the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates
How many of them are actually employable?
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
How many of them are actually employable?
Well, this guy[^] seems to have been employable. :omg:
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
How many of them are actually employable?
Well, this guy[^] seems to have been employable. :omg:
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
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i think before making anybody member the CP should take TOEFL for registering member to qualify for becoming member of CP.
rahul
Chill, mate. :) I admit I couldn't resist taking that shot, but I don't go around hurling insults. OT: I counted three 'member's in your post. Austin Powers comes to mind.... :-D
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
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well, i recently completed my studies and i think i had the most disastrous record in my academics. its emabarassing to say this but i had an aggregare of 58% .. due to this i did not get the opportunity to attend the campus interviews.. but i was well prepared and was determined to make the best use of an opportunity if i was given any. and now, i feel good to say that i got through the very first opportunity that came my way. :):) incidently i became the first person in my batch to get a job off campus.. :):) well, for the people who dont have good academic record and searching for a job, dont worry... you will surely get some opportunities. since the opportunities are minimum, just be prepared to make the best use of them when they come...i wish you all a very good luck..:):)
vijay.
hey look at my side of story x 56 % xii 56 % with two times compartment in chemistry joined a college (my biggest mistake in career not joining upseat when cleared with good rankings) 1st semester we don't have good enough teachers in our college so we complained for that to college authorities they take no action passed with back in 1 subject second semester we complained to university passed with back in 1 subject third sem university cancelled affiliation of the college but said that they will complete our courses we requested for transfer denied fourth sem onwards no teacher i started business of distribution and studied my self fifth sem business grows sixth sem back in three subjects business still grows seventh sem (exam given two years before no results declared by now) eighth sem practical + project submitted cleared no official result declared around a year before i decided to quit business (it just grow up large but i don't like that type of work i was suffocating ) i slowly decrease the business and today that business is closed nine months before i joined a small firm and did code in fox pro for six months for a monthly salary of 4500 INR after that i cleared the interview at HCL but never joined it (several reasons) then i joined the company i am currently working in it is a small company and never give me any training i have to code .net from day 1 with a package of 25000 INR /month i think it is a good salary for a fresher like me so i wanna tell that if you really want to do something you can do anything :):)
It is Good to be Important but! it is more Important to be Good [My Question]
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hey look at my side of story x 56 % xii 56 % with two times compartment in chemistry joined a college (my biggest mistake in career not joining upseat when cleared with good rankings) 1st semester we don't have good enough teachers in our college so we complained for that to college authorities they take no action passed with back in 1 subject second semester we complained to university passed with back in 1 subject third sem university cancelled affiliation of the college but said that they will complete our courses we requested for transfer denied fourth sem onwards no teacher i started business of distribution and studied my self fifth sem business grows sixth sem back in three subjects business still grows seventh sem (exam given two years before no results declared by now) eighth sem practical + project submitted cleared no official result declared around a year before i decided to quit business (it just grow up large but i don't like that type of work i was suffocating ) i slowly decrease the business and today that business is closed nine months before i joined a small firm and did code in fox pro for six months for a monthly salary of 4500 INR after that i cleared the interview at HCL but never joined it (several reasons) then i joined the company i am currently working in it is a small company and never give me any training i have to code .net from day 1 with a package of 25000 INR /month i think it is a good salary for a fresher like me so i wanna tell that if you really want to do something you can do anything :):)
It is Good to be Important but! it is more Important to be Good [My Question]
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Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide but the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates are moving on roads,becouse companies are not giving them chance to work as they do not have good % of marks througt out there academic carrier. is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent? Is this the way companies are going to sort out this problem?
rahul
Most recent college graduates wouldn't be considerd software "professinals" since they have so little experience. And here's the problem, good software professionals usually already have a high paying job. Thus making it hard in today's market to find "good" software professionals. I know we've had a pretty hard time finding experienced win32 and carbon software professionals. If any professionals in the Ireland area is looking for a job feel free to send me an email :-D
Todd Smith
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:laugh::laugh:
It is Good to be Important but! it is more Important to be Good [My Question]
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rah_sin wrote:
they are simply judging based on marks
So you think you should have worked a little harder on your courses and partied a little less? ;P
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
Tim Craig wrote:
So you think you should have worked a little harder on your courses and partied a little less? ;P
Cause those Uni projects are so relevant to the real world. (I know you were joking, so settle down) Started a Uni degree 6 years after I became a programmer in the real world. Completed 2/3 before family stuff got in the road. Don't think any of it was relevant or really helped with any of the work I was doing.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Brian Bartlett wrote:
Microsoft and others have engaged anthropologists so I'm not barking mad
Microsoft does it so it must be good. :laugh:
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
{Rolling eyes} Would you have been happier if I said 'Apple and others' or perhaps 'IBM and others'? Sheesh.
-Bri "The most deadly words for an engineer. 'I have an idea.'"
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
How many of them are actually employable?
Well, this guy[^] seems to have been employable. :omg:
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
I can't believe this guy. I know, I'm going to post up that I need somebody to implement the RETE III algorithm for a rules engine. I'm sure to get so much help that I won't need to hire anybody.:-D What are these people thinking?
Arthur Dent - "That would explain it. All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's something big and sinister going on in the world." Slartibartfast - "No. That's perfectly normal paranoia. Everybody in the universe gets that." Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide but the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates are moving on roads,becouse companies are not giving them chance to work as they do not have good % of marks througt out there academic carrier. is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent? Is this the way companies are going to sort out this problem?
rahul
rah_sin wrote:
Is this the way companies are going to sort out this problem?
The way we are combatting it is by sending me and other engineers with "exciting careers" to the elementary, middle, and high schools. Get the kids interested, keep them interested. Get them started on a road to continue my work and other's work. We take the lasers, 3D graphics, remote controlled robots, etc. The kids see you can have fun in a technical career, they may want to take the extra school to do it. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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rah_sin wrote:
is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent?
No. For starters, communication skills are important as well. ;)
rah_sin wrote:
the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates
How many of them are actually employable?
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
How many of them are actually employable?
I am not a hard judge - but all my hiring attempts in India were disastrous. So I'd say a very very tiny % of the educated unemployed (s/w category) in India may be hirable - the rest would be misfits. Also, I am now personally reevaluating my skill-set, ability, and knowledge, and each day I realize I know nothing - and that I have miles to go before I become as good as I want to. So, on one side, while we see that the quality of new software devs is going down, we also need to try and step up our own skill-set/knowledge, else in 5 years, we'd be as bad as those we criticize.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Most of the times it comes in news that there is shotage of professionals world wide but the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates are moving on roads,becouse companies are not giving them chance to work as they do not have good % of marks througt out there academic carrier. is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent? Is this the way companies are going to sort out this problem?
rahul
I dunno if I would say there is a shortage of S/W professionals. I would rephrase it to a "Shortage of Good S/W Professionals". There are a ton of software programmers floating around. The problem is how many of them are really worth anything? Hackers, templaters, copy cats? How many of them actually know/understand what they are doing? How many of them really understand the envoirnment they are hired to write code in? Any monkey can hit keys on a keyboard...always remember this is a "thinking man's game". -BC
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rah_sin wrote:
is the marks are right way to judge anybodies talent?
No. For starters, communication skills are important as well. ;)
rah_sin wrote:
the ground reality is that 1000's of engineering graduates and post graduates
How many of them are actually employable?
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
No. For starters, communication skills are important as well.
I know you're (your) having a little fun there (their/they're), but I have to agree regardless. In all too many forums involving programmers I find the need to stop to figure out what they're (their/there) trying to say. Some of this is due (do) to the words not making sense. This can be due to (two/too) using the wrong homophone or just poor (pour) spelling. It isn't always necessary but programmers are often required to document their work outside of in code comments. Even if poor communications doesn't reflect on the coder's ability to produce code it can still produce negative feelings towards him/her. And many companies are concerned about how their employees' skills reflect on the company itself. Lilith