UML Modeller
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Jonathan [Darka] wrote:
other developers here prefer UML.
You can do UML in Visio.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
You can do UML in Visio.
You can make diagrams in Visio, that is just a subset of what is UML. If diagrams is all you want then a napkin is fine.
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Hopefully not considered a programming question.... Which UML Modeller do you generally use, I am stuck with Microsoft's old Visual Modeller and was trying to find a better one. Any suggestions ?
Darka [Xanya] "I am not a slave to a god that doesn't exist."
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
You can do UML in Visio.
You can make diagrams in Visio, that is just a subset of what is UML. If diagrams is all you want then a napkin is fine.
Sorry, I don't have a napkin, would a serviette do?
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Enterprise Architect is a good choice. However, also consider StarUML and ArgoUML. As far a SmartDraw is concerned, it is also useful.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
ArgoUML
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
SmartDraw
Argo isn't too bad, and SmartDraw is another good one. I pretty much have Posideon, Argo, SmartDraw, and StarUML all on this machine.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I tested out a variety of UML modellers and frankly, they all have their strengths and weaknesses
I agree with him and that is pretty much why I use the four different programs for UML.
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Hence the Tag Outlaw Programmer :-) There is a time and place for UML, I have and Have not used it in the past. I have traditionally used it to Model Specifications before I send them to India and they come back in a solution I didn't model. So UML can be labeled as a waste of time in that sense, but sometimes they do work when the developer knows about them :-) The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!!
You always could use a digital camera and take a picture of the UML diagram on the whiteboard.
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Hence the Tag Outlaw Programmer :-) There is a time and place for UML, I have and Have not used it in the past. I have traditionally used it to Model Specifications before I send them to India and they come back in a solution I didn't model. So UML can be labeled as a waste of time in that sense, but sometimes they do work when the developer knows about them :-) The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!!
Then get a digital white board! http://www2.smarttech.com/st/en-US/Products/SMART+Boards/Front+Projection/600+Series/[^] http://www.electronicwhiteboardswarehouse.com/[^] it's only as expensive as a couple of copies of rational rose.... or you can use a 12mp digital camera and just photograph a real white board. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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cykophysh39 wrote:
The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!!
You always could use a digital camera and take a picture of the UML diagram on the whiteboard.
LOL Spoken like a man with experience, now one realises why Mobile phones have camera's attached to them now :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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LOL Spoken like a man with experience, now one realises why Mobile phones have camera's attached to them now :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
now one realises why Mobile phones have camera's attached to them now
Yep. Snap a picture on the mobile phone and send it to someone on the team :)
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I've been programming for almost 30 years, and have never needed a UML tool, and it certainly isn't because I've never worked on huge or complex projects. As far as I'm concerned, UML is a waste of money and resources.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, UML is a waste of money and resources.
So you never find having a diagrammatic view of any aspect of a software system to be helpful? In certain instances I find it invaluable. Certainly almost any development tool can be misused. The worst thing is an edict requiring a "one size fits all" use of one. All the tools available for development can be helpful at the right time in the right circumstances. It is up to us to figure out what would be helpful and when.
led mike
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Sorry, I don't have a napkin, would a serviette do?
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
would a serviette do?
Anything you can write on is fine. :-D
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cykophysh39 wrote:
The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!!
Then get a digital white board! http://www2.smarttech.com/st/en-US/Products/SMART+Boards/Front+Projection/600+Series/[^] http://www.electronicwhiteboardswarehouse.com/[^] it's only as expensive as a couple of copies of rational rose.... or you can use a 12mp digital camera and just photograph a real white board. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
get a digital white board!
That would be cool. Only if we could generate code from what we drew on the board :laugh:
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Check StarUML. OpenSource, only for Windows, good :)
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
UML is a waste of money and resources.
Do you also believe getting requirements defined and understood to be a waste of money and resources? Documenting the use cases and senarios and getting customer concurance that you understand and support their business process is not a waste.
Our "customer" says "do it the way you want to", and the requirements change frequently because of business rules that affect the UI. We have no control, they don't want to spend the money or time to do it with UML tools, and we still end up with a great product. Plus, all the jumping through hoops has made us a nimble yet effective programming team. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I like visio too but again licenses are required and other developers here prefer UML.
Darka [Xanya] "I am not a slave to a god that doesn't exist."
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I just use Visio - It is fine for most things.
*** Developer Day 4 in Reading, England on 2nd December 2006 - Registration Now Open *** Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
I find that Visio works against the way I think. You always have to choose extraneous, distracting things up front. I find that derails my thoughts about what I'm working on; instead of thinking about my design, I have to think about Visio. :sigh: I'd like a tool that is very flexible about letting me change things as I go without making me choose whether I want my software diagram to be in metric or English units :wtf: up front. It would be nice to be able to insert new objects, change existing objects, etc. without a fruitless 10 minute detour into the help file. So far, it seems to me that it is easier to use Paint or a pencil and paper. Anyone know of a more light weight and flexible design tool?
Matt Gerrans
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Our "customer" says "do it the way you want to", and the requirements change frequently because of business rules that affect the UI. We have no control, they don't want to spend the money or time to do it with UML tools, and we still end up with a great product. Plus, all the jumping through hoops has made us a nimble yet effective programming team. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Our "customer" says "do it the way you want to",
Nice enviroment. :-D
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
requirements change frequently because of business rules that affect the UI.
Not a nice enviroment. Sounds like the customer does not know their own business. :( Which if they can work that way and are happy with you then no problems. :-D However, I say your statement that UML does not provide benifit to be a little closed minded on what can be achieved for most enviroments. IMhO of course. :rose:
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Our "customer" says "do it the way you want to",
Nice enviroment. :-D
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
requirements change frequently because of business rules that affect the UI.
Not a nice enviroment. Sounds like the customer does not know their own business. :( Which if they can work that way and are happy with you then no problems. :-D However, I say your statement that UML does not provide benifit to be a little closed minded on what can be achieved for most enviroments. IMhO of course. :rose:
Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
Sounds like the customer does not know their own business
Actually, there are many people who want to have input so they can "leave their mark" on the software. We also have to deal with a fairly high turnover rate (our customer is the military medical system), so it seems like each new department head wants to massage everything to his/her liking. It's kinda like whack-a-mole. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
Sounds like the customer does not know their own business
Actually, there are many people who want to have input so they can "leave their mark" on the software. We also have to deal with a fairly high turnover rate (our customer is the military medical system), so it seems like each new department head wants to massage everything to his/her liking. It's kinda like whack-a-mole. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
there are many people who want to have input so they can "leave their mark"
I do understand. One reason why business logic should be seperated from the gui layer. :)
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cykophysh39 wrote:
The best UML modeler I can think of is the "White Board" but it makes hard work for Filing!!
Then get a digital white board! http://www2.smarttech.com/st/en-US/Products/SMART+Boards/Front+Projection/600+Series/[^] http://www.electronicwhiteboardswarehouse.com/[^] it's only as expensive as a couple of copies of rational rose.... or you can use a 12mp digital camera and just photograph a real white board. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
There is also an application (can't remember the one we used, but whiteboard photo is another example) that takes that washed out non-centered photo of a whiteboard and turns it into a clear primary-colour image with correct aspect. Fantastic idea, and works surprisingly well.