Vista premium content protection - yikes!
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glossary schmossary. If it isn't plain english, it doesn't compute.
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Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
If it isn't plain english, it doesn't compute
Good god be careful! He might hear you!
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
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Sheesh, are we still in the 80's? What's with the ASCII-formatted plain text document? :rolleyes: I gave the article a cursory read through as best as I could (plaintext hurts my eyes, and content protection is not my speciality), but couldn't see what was so unique to Vista about it? Surely the same pros and cons exist with the newer DVD players and TVs with the content protection built in? They won't let you play protected content over an unsecure connection either -- effectively disabling those outputs automatically when protected content is played and reducing quality when targeting a non-compliant device. Ultimately the market will decide whether it takes off or is destined to die as another failed attempt at content protection (like every other attempt). I expect any unintentional problems will be resolved - we have had this level of fearmongering in the past and it proved anything but significant with hindsight. I for one will not be purchasing any protected content, and by law publishers will be required to label content as protected in the UK, and probably Europe. I am not convinced it will be entirely legal, especially if there turn out to be side-effects. Who knows, give it a few years and some big class action suits and the media giants might get the message. I wouldn't hold your breath though. :(
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
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I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkBesides the general implications, it discusses the specifics of the Vista implementation, and assumes - IMO correctly - that Vista will force many consumers and developers (SW/HW) to deal with DRM. It's well worth the read, factual, focuses on technical issues. (this might help with ascii challenged people like you[^]) Gist: DRM affects many areas and people that have absolutely nothing to do with "premium content".
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Besides the general implications, it discusses the specifics of the Vista implementation, and assumes - IMO correctly - that Vista will force many consumers and developers (SW/HW) to deal with DRM. It's well worth the read, factual, focuses on technical issues. (this might help with ascii challenged people like you[^]) Gist: DRM affects many areas and people that have absolutely nothing to do with "premium content".
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We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
this might help with ascii challenged people like you
I actually ended up pasting it into Word and applying the default formatting. :-O The whole thing sounds too familiar[^] for me to start selling all my technology stocks and boarding up my windows* just yet. * groan...
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
peterchen wrote:
this might help with ascii challenged people like you
I actually ended up pasting it into Word and applying the default formatting. :-O The whole thing sounds too familiar[^] for me to start selling all my technology stocks and boarding up my windows* just yet. * groan...
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
sounds too familiar
It's what came of it. Only this time it's really there - well half of there, but enough to affect us.
David Wulff wrote:
start selling all my technology stocks and boarding up my windows*
No reason to. After all, a lot of code eeds to be adjusted to deal with that crap :cool:
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers
So?
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Linkify!|Fold With Us!It's not going to affect me either. I am playing DVDs on DVD-players only. I was just trying to point out that it's not a bug it's a feature forced to be implemented.:)
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It's not going to affect me either. I am playing DVDs on DVD-players only. I was just trying to point out that it's not a bug it's a feature forced to be implemented.:)
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it. :) We have an application with full duplex audio streaming, highly performance critical and sensitive to changes in the signal. I guess I will be affected... it jsut depends o how long I can hold out Vista.
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Me and a buddy at work have a bet going that we made 6 months ago. I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years and he said 6 years. I think that vista might just tilt the odds farther in my favor. :-D Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine. And one of the biggest shame is that i can already tell you how they are going to bypass all of this new "features" (*ahem bugs *cough). Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I? -
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it. :) We have an application with full duplex audio streaming, highly performance critical and sensitive to changes in the signal. I guess I will be affected... it jsut depends o how long I can hold out Vista.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it.
Well, looks like somebody at Microsoft has a different opinion ;P
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A silly TV wouldn't be able to view high definition content anyway, so you wouldn't have any issue in the first place. :rolleyes: To many people however that is going to be a lot more important than a silly operating system or media centre PC because they invest a lot of money into home cinema equipment. Personally I'd rather have my friends round for an evening and watch a good DVD than use a computer, but that's me. YMV and that's fine.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Personally I'd rather have my friends round for an evening and watch a good DVD
Strange, I would rather sit around and BS rather than watch TV guess YMMV is really true eh. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Hmm I just scrolled down to the bottom of it to the Acknowledgements section and saw that the "report" cites a Slashdotter. I'm not going to draw any conclusions about Vista content protection, but I've already drawn a conclusion about the report.
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peterchen wrote:
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it.
Well, looks like somebody at Microsoft has a different opinion ;P
T does make sense for microsoft to implement it, no doubt. But at the current level, microsoft should have made a full stop and said "No, not this way", seeing that they violate what made them big. But that would have involved someone to make a decision. Ah well.
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Is Microsoft benefiting more from the RIAA or from hardware manufacturers? I'd be interested to see a response from Microsoft on this.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Me and a buddy at work have a bet going that we made 6 months ago. I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years and he said 6 years. I think that vista might just tilt the odds farther in my favor. :-D Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine. And one of the biggest shame is that i can already tell you how they are going to bypass all of this new "features" (*ahem bugs *cough). Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I?Please qualify:
CaveFox wrote:
Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming
What on Earth gave you that idea?
CaveFox wrote:
I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years
And that one?
CaveFox wrote:
Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
You are wrong. :rolleyes: That is the problem with this approach - the outputs themselves are low quality to prevent them being intercepted. If you plug a device in on route then all you will get is a poor quality signal, or a warning message stating you need a premium-content-compatible TV.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Is Microsoft benefiting more from the RIAA or from hardware manufacturers? I'd be interested to see a response from Microsoft on this.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
What legal ability would the RIAA have to say to Microsoft: support us across the board or we will prevent your Zune, XBox 360, etc, from playing premium content, and sue you for letting WMP have an opt-out-of-DRM box when ripping CDs? I would fully expect support to be optional (i.e. possible to disable completely) if it has other side effects, like some of the new data security stuff in Vista. Windows PCs cover too many niches to sweep a change like that across the lot.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
It's not going to affect me either. I am playing DVDs on DVD-players only. I was just trying to point out that it's not a bug it's a feature forced to be implemented.:)
The article linked in the original post is all about how it's going to affect you, even if you don't watch "premium" content on your computer.
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers
So?
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
Igor Vigdorchik wrote: high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers So?
I agree. It would be nice to be able to turn the "feature" off completely by simply disabling all "premium" content on the machine in the system policies, at least.
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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Sheesh, are we still in the 80's? What's with the ASCII-formatted plain text document? :rolleyes: I gave the article a cursory read through as best as I could (plaintext hurts my eyes, and content protection is not my speciality), but couldn't see what was so unique to Vista about it? Surely the same pros and cons exist with the newer DVD players and TVs with the content protection built in? They won't let you play protected content over an unsecure connection either -- effectively disabling those outputs automatically when protected content is played and reducing quality when targeting a non-compliant device. Ultimately the market will decide whether it takes off or is destined to die as another failed attempt at content protection (like every other attempt). I expect any unintentional problems will be resolved - we have had this level of fearmongering in the past and it proved anything but significant with hindsight. I for one will not be purchasing any protected content, and by law publishers will be required to label content as protected in the UK, and probably Europe. I am not convinced it will be entirely legal, especially if there turn out to be side-effects. Who knows, give it a few years and some big class action suits and the media giants might get the message. I wouldn't hold your breath though. :(
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Who knows, give it a few years and some big class action suits and the media giants might get the message.
That's great, unless you're the victim in the wrongful death suit. (Specifically referring to the section of the article that discusses potential impact on medical imaging systems.)
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
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As mentioned, it's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well. Vista should be the least of your worries - the upgrade costs for Windows don't start at $5,000 after rebates... You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
I intend not to.
David Wulff wrote:
t's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well.
Yeah, but when was the last time you cracked your DVD player open and installed a new video card? When was the last time your TV suddenly quit working properly at all because somebody on the other side of the world found a way to use that model to bypass somebody's copy protection scheme?
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
With all these draconian measures to prevent piracy, how long will it be before weaknesses in the system allow it to be bypassed? The means to access the content exists within the PC after all. It only requires a few crackers to make the contents available. After this has occurred, don't all these measures collectively turn into a very expensive and inconvenient white elephant, that everyone is saddled with for a considerable length of time?
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David Wulff wrote:
You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
Indeed.
David Wulff wrote:
As mentioned, it's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well. Vista should be the least of your worries - the upgrade costs for Windows don't start at $5,000 after rebates...
Computers are far more important to me than an silly TV.
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Captain See Sharp David Wulff wrote: You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content. Indeed.
You may do that. I may do that. The average sheeple may say he's going to do that, but the moment the MPAA decides to stop issuing $20dvds in favor of $30bluerays they'll start spending like there's no tomorrow.
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.