Vista premium content protection - yikes!
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Me and a buddy at work have a bet going that we made 6 months ago. I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years and he said 6 years. I think that vista might just tilt the odds farther in my favor. :-D Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine. And one of the biggest shame is that i can already tell you how they are going to bypass all of this new "features" (*ahem bugs *cough). Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I? -
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it. :) We have an application with full duplex audio streaming, highly performance critical and sensitive to changes in the signal. I guess I will be affected... it jsut depends o how long I can hold out Vista.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it.
Well, looks like somebody at Microsoft has a different opinion ;P
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A silly TV wouldn't be able to view high definition content anyway, so you wouldn't have any issue in the first place. :rolleyes: To many people however that is going to be a lot more important than a silly operating system or media centre PC because they invest a lot of money into home cinema equipment. Personally I'd rather have my friends round for an evening and watch a good DVD than use a computer, but that's me. YMV and that's fine.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Personally I'd rather have my friends round for an evening and watch a good DVD
Strange, I would rather sit around and BS rather than watch TV guess YMMV is really true eh. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Hmm I just scrolled down to the bottom of it to the Acknowledgements section and saw that the "report" cites a Slashdotter. I'm not going to draw any conclusions about Vista content protection, but I've already drawn a conclusion about the report.
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peterchen wrote:
I was just trying to point out that microsoft wouldn't collapse if they didn't implement it.
Well, looks like somebody at Microsoft has a different opinion ;P
T does make sense for microsoft to implement it, no doubt. But at the current level, microsoft should have made a full stop and said "No, not this way", seeing that they violate what made them big. But that would have involved someone to make a decision. Ah well.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us! -
This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
Is Microsoft benefiting more from the RIAA or from hardware manufacturers? I'd be interested to see a response from Microsoft on this.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Me and a buddy at work have a bet going that we made 6 months ago. I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years and he said 6 years. I think that vista might just tilt the odds farther in my favor. :-D Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine. And one of the biggest shame is that i can already tell you how they are going to bypass all of this new "features" (*ahem bugs *cough). Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I?Please qualify:
CaveFox wrote:
Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming
What on Earth gave you that idea?
CaveFox wrote:
I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years
And that one?
CaveFox wrote:
Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
You are wrong. :rolleyes: That is the problem with this approach - the outputs themselves are low quality to prevent them being intercepted. If you plug a device in on route then all you will get is a poor quality signal, or a warning message stating you need a premium-content-compatible TV.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Is Microsoft benefiting more from the RIAA or from hardware manufacturers? I'd be interested to see a response from Microsoft on this.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
What legal ability would the RIAA have to say to Microsoft: support us across the board or we will prevent your Zune, XBox 360, etc, from playing premium content, and sue you for letting WMP have an opt-out-of-DRM box when ripping CDs? I would fully expect support to be optional (i.e. possible to disable completely) if it has other side effects, like some of the new data security stuff in Vista. Windows PCs cover too many niches to sweep a change like that across the lot.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
It's not going to affect me either. I am playing DVDs on DVD-players only. I was just trying to point out that it's not a bug it's a feature forced to be implemented.:)
The article linked in the original post is all about how it's going to affect you, even if you don't watch "premium" content on your computer.
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers
So?
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
Igor Vigdorchik wrote: high-definition optical discs would be entirely off-limits on Windows computers So?
I agree. It would be nice to be able to turn the "feature" off completely by simply disabling all "premium" content on the machine in the system policies, at least.
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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Sheesh, are we still in the 80's? What's with the ASCII-formatted plain text document? :rolleyes: I gave the article a cursory read through as best as I could (plaintext hurts my eyes, and content protection is not my speciality), but couldn't see what was so unique to Vista about it? Surely the same pros and cons exist with the newer DVD players and TVs with the content protection built in? They won't let you play protected content over an unsecure connection either -- effectively disabling those outputs automatically when protected content is played and reducing quality when targeting a non-compliant device. Ultimately the market will decide whether it takes off or is destined to die as another failed attempt at content protection (like every other attempt). I expect any unintentional problems will be resolved - we have had this level of fearmongering in the past and it proved anything but significant with hindsight. I for one will not be purchasing any protected content, and by law publishers will be required to label content as protected in the UK, and probably Europe. I am not convinced it will be entirely legal, especially if there turn out to be side-effects. Who knows, give it a few years and some big class action suits and the media giants might get the message. I wouldn't hold your breath though. :(
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Who knows, give it a few years and some big class action suits and the media giants might get the message.
That's great, unless you're the victim in the wrongful death suit. (Specifically referring to the section of the article that discusses potential impact on medical imaging systems.)
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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As mentioned, it's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well. Vista should be the least of your worries - the upgrade costs for Windows don't start at $5,000 after rebates... You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
I intend not to.
David Wulff wrote:
t's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well.
Yeah, but when was the last time you cracked your DVD player open and installed a new video card? When was the last time your TV suddenly quit working properly at all because somebody on the other side of the world found a way to use that model to bypass somebody's copy protection scheme?
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
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This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
With all these draconian measures to prevent piracy, how long will it be before weaknesses in the system allow it to be bypassed? The means to access the content exists within the PC after all. It only requires a few crackers to make the contents available. After this has occurred, don't all these measures collectively turn into a very expensive and inconvenient white elephant, that everyone is saddled with for a considerable length of time?
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David Wulff wrote:
You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
Indeed.
David Wulff wrote:
As mentioned, it's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well. Vista should be the least of your worries - the upgrade costs for Windows don't start at $5,000 after rebates...
Computers are far more important to me than an silly TV.
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Captain See Sharp David Wulff wrote: You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content. Indeed.
You may do that. I may do that. The average sheeple may say he's going to do that, but the moment the MPAA decides to stop issuing $20dvds in favor of $30bluerays they'll start spending like there's no tomorrow.
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
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Me and a buddy at work have a bet going that we made 6 months ago. I said that Linux will become main stream (for end users) in 3 years and he said 6 years. I think that vista might just tilt the odds farther in my favor. :-D Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine. And one of the biggest shame is that i can already tell you how they are going to bypass all of this new "features" (*ahem bugs *cough). Simple. PC > TV > DVD recorder? (Disclaimer : I could be wrong).
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I?CaveFox wrote:
Micro$oft is going to be the extinction of PC gaming ... well you will probably still have those slow Micro$oft games. eg. Incredible creatures ... great concept - poor game engine.
Yeah, if they kill PC gaming, they can try and sell you an Xbox 360!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)
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David Wulff wrote:
You'd be far better off simply not buying any protected content.
I intend not to.
David Wulff wrote:
t's not just Vista but TVs and Home Cinema components as well.
Yeah, but when was the last time you cracked your DVD player open and installed a new video card? When was the last time your TV suddenly quit working properly at all because somebody on the other side of the world found a way to use that model to bypass somebody's copy protection scheme?
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue IS NOT NULL GO
(0 row(s) affected)
Surely that agrees with what I've said, so why the question marks? :confused:
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
This is a long but good read on the implications: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt[^] No I don't have a beef against Vista, as I said before I write software for whatever my users are using it's all the same to me, however I keep running across so many negative items about Vista every day on the net, items that are definitely more than FUD.
The problem with all this hype about Vista is that it is driven by hatred. There are so few objective opinions about Vista and Microsoft it's rediculous. This initiative is not about Vista. Its that simple. Yet the original poster and the writer of the article would have you believe its the Microsoft Devil at work. I saw the same thing on CNN the other day. The headline says "First Vista Security Flaw Exposed". The article was all about how if a hacker was actually sitting at your computer they could expose a flaw in the operating system. A rediculous story with a misleading headline. The fact is that Microsoft is the only company in the world that has successfully built software on this scale. Talk to the accounting, finance, and business analysts of the past 15 years. They will tell you how much better they have been able to collaborate, analyze, organize there business information for a relatively cheap price on the windows operating system. Remember when the productivity of the US worker pratically doubled in the 90's. Backend databases had a lot to do with that but the information was delivered to the business users hands to analyze in an Office/Windows environment. Microsoft will never be open source, free of bugs, free of charge, or far from contreversy. Atleast respect thier acomplishments enough to be filter your comments for objectivity and context. Keep one thing in mind when wishing/predicting the demise of Microsoft and its products. "Geeks","Artists" and their bosses are the only ones calling for an alternate OS. The people that drive earnings and make strategic decisions want something easy to use and designed with them in mind. That has been XP and will be Vista.
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The problem with all this hype about Vista is that it is driven by hatred. There are so few objective opinions about Vista and Microsoft it's rediculous. This initiative is not about Vista. Its that simple. Yet the original poster and the writer of the article would have you believe its the Microsoft Devil at work. I saw the same thing on CNN the other day. The headline says "First Vista Security Flaw Exposed". The article was all about how if a hacker was actually sitting at your computer they could expose a flaw in the operating system. A rediculous story with a misleading headline. The fact is that Microsoft is the only company in the world that has successfully built software on this scale. Talk to the accounting, finance, and business analysts of the past 15 years. They will tell you how much better they have been able to collaborate, analyze, organize there business information for a relatively cheap price on the windows operating system. Remember when the productivity of the US worker pratically doubled in the 90's. Backend databases had a lot to do with that but the information was delivered to the business users hands to analyze in an Office/Windows environment. Microsoft will never be open source, free of bugs, free of charge, or far from contreversy. Atleast respect thier acomplishments enough to be filter your comments for objectivity and context. Keep one thing in mind when wishing/predicting the demise of Microsoft and its products. "Geeks","Artists" and their bosses are the only ones calling for an alternate OS. The people that drive earnings and make strategic decisions want something easy to use and designed with them in mind. That has been XP and will be Vista.
cspikes wrote:
Yet the original poster and the writer of the article would have you believe its the Microsoft Devil at work.
You must be new around here ;) - you could not be more wrong, I've always been pretty clear about my thoughts on Vista and they are not anti-Microsoft in any way. Sure microsoft has done some great things, Vista is not one of them.
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cspikes wrote:
Yet the original poster and the writer of the article would have you believe its the Microsoft Devil at work.
You must be new around here ;) - you could not be more wrong, I've always been pretty clear about my thoughts on Vista and they are not anti-Microsoft in any way. Sure microsoft has done some great things, Vista is not one of them.
John Cardinal wrote:
You must be new around here
Your right and I love this site.
John Cardinal wrote:
Sure microsoft has done some great things
The most empowering company in the last half century easy.
John Cardinal wrote:
I've always been pretty clear about my thoughts on Vista and they are not anti-Microsoft in any way
I'm sure your right. My comments were probably ill placed. I just never see anybody speaking positive about the things they are doing.
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John Cardinal wrote:
You must be new around here
Your right and I love this site.
John Cardinal wrote:
Sure microsoft has done some great things
The most empowering company in the last half century easy.
John Cardinal wrote:
I've always been pretty clear about my thoughts on Vista and they are not anti-Microsoft in any way
I'm sure your right. My comments were probably ill placed. I just never see anybody speaking positive about the things they are doing.
From my point of view .net has been the best thing they've done in a while, but aside from that they've lost their way to a great extent. If you read some of the blogs from Microsoft insiders about the Vista development process it's not pretty from strictly a software engineers point of view. They might benefit tremendously from splitting up their os and infrastructure divisions from their consumer application divisions, but that's just idle speculation. They just don't feel to me anymore like the cutting edge "developers" company they use to be, more like a risk averse overly large organisation unwilling to truly innovate or change.