Help! The Spam Patrol is out of control!
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> We used straight GDI for the bulk of the wysiwyg Dude... I am so tired of reading about "We" and the merits of your laughable "Plain English" langauge... Can you write a clone of something like Photoshop, SQL Server, or Windows itself in it? The answer is obvious. I have no idea why some visitors give you any benefit of doubt... You are either a freak, or a troll laughing his ass off at any fool that engages you (me now joining the ranks)... I would say, please take your religion elsewhere, however... what you are pushing could never qualify... what you have is a silly little idea that will never take hold because you cannot see the limitations... I don't mean to crush your hopes, but you seriously need to get back to reality.
chimera967 wrote:
Can you write a clone of something like Photoshop, SQL Server, or Windows itself in it?
Of course. The language is turing-complete and can call any function written in any other language. Programs similar to the ones you list could without a doubt be developed in Plain English. And why do we think so? Because we've already used Plain English to write a complete development and documentation system, including a unique interface, a handy file manager, an elegant text editor, a hexadecimal dumper, a wysiwyg page layout facility, and a self-contained compiler/linker that generates native-code executables for Windows. That, as any programmer should know, is not an insignificant program. The page editor alone is a noteworthy accomplishment - it includes support for the usual graphics objects (rectangles, ellipses, lines, open and closed polygons, etc), plus text (in different fonts, styles, and colors) and pictures (which can be sized, cropped, rotated, mirrored, and flipped); it also supports grouping of objects (to any depth), various units of measure, snap grids, reduction, enlargement, and multiple pages in different orientations within a single document. And it can save the documents that are created with it in either ascii text format or as PDFs. (Incidently, the PDF code is entirely Plain English - we chose not to use any of Adobe's DLLs to keep the program self-contained.) Nor is the program clumsy or inefficient - the source is a readable 25,000 lines of Plain English sentences and the whole thing recompiles, in itself, in less than three seconds on a bottom-of-the-line Dell. The resulting executable is about 850 kilobytes. And let's not forget that the artwork for our website was drawn using this very same program; that the programs that process our credit card orders were written in Plain English; and that the program that gathers and reports statistics from our site is also a Plain English program. Seems real to us. Especially when someone visits our website, downloads the product, and then says something like, and I quote: "I am really enjoying my experience with the Plain English compiler. The programs look like well-documented code without the code." I love that one. "Well-documented code without the code." And yet such programs compile (quickly) and run (reliably). Sweet!
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Are you really that stupid (or arrogant)? :wtf:
The Grand Negus wrote:
My question is, which graphics API or GUI would you recommend? MFC/GDI+, Qt4, OpenGL, DirectX, SDL? The only thing I won't use is .NET.
Maybe if you talked more about API/GUI then about your damn editor...
"Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. " - Morpheus
dnh wrote:
Maybe if you talked more about API/GUI then about your damn editor...
But I did. I said we used GDI and a bit of GDI+ (for bitmap conversions). What else is there to say on that topic? The questions I presumed would be in the original poster's mind at that point were things like, "And how did that work out for you?" and "Were you able to accomplish anything with that combination?" and "What language did you use to interface with those APIs?" and "Do you have a sample I could look at?" and "Are you willing to share your source code with me?" and "What if I have questions?" The rest of my post was designed to answer those questions.
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code-frog wrote:
Use this as your signature and your problems should get a lot better...
I appreciate the help, really, but you keep suggesting that there was something wrong with my original post. The problem isn't with me, it's with the Spam Patrol and/or the algorithm that makes it so easy for a meaningful message to be quickly deleted. Besides, I've tried to get clarification from Maunder regarding exactly what it and is not allowed in a signature with very unsatisfactory results. There's a huge thread on the matter in the Suggestion box. Furthermore, I don't really understand this "signature" idea myself. It seems to me that it would make all of my posts - even those where I normally wouldn't mention Plain English - into free advertisements for the product (giving the Spam Patrol grounds for deleteing all of them). Really, why is it better to advertise "below the line" in every post, rather than mention only the elements of our product that are pertinent in only those posts where they apply?
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Again! See this[^] thread. Here is the original conversation (in case it gets deleted, again, in General Discussions). CoffeeAddict19 wrote: I'm thinking about writing a simple 2D CAD drawing program. It won't have anything near the complexity of a commercial CAD program, essentially it'll be a sophisticated vector based clone of MS Paint. It dosen't need to be multiplatform (windows xp/2000/vista). My question is, which graphics API or GUI would you recommend? MFC/GDI+, Qt4, OpenGL, DirectX, SDL? The only thing I won't use is .NET. The Grand Negus wrote: We used straight GDI for the bulk of the wysiwyg, vector-based page editor that is part of the development system we wrote, resorting to GDI+ only for the conversion functions that are missing in the old GDI (JPEG to BITMAP, for example). Our editor is simple and smooth and includes the usual graphics objects (rectangles, ellipses, lines, open and closed polygons, etc), plus text (in different fonts, styles, and colors) and pictures (which can be sized, cropped, rotated, mirrored, and flipped); it also supports grouping of objects (to any depth), various units of measure, snap grids, reduction, enlargement, multiple pages in different orientations, and it saves everything in ascii text. The interface is unique: it is modeless, and has none of the usual "tools"; nevertheless, it is easy to learn and very easy to use. I'd be glad to send you a copy, with source code, to give you some ideas - it's written in Plain English (about 4300 lines), but you can just think of it as pseudocode if you decide to write in another language. Interested? help@osmosian.com.
Grand putz, (I call you this because you don’t have the courage to at least use your first name on the board) :suss: Anyway your constant crying about your complier has become the new CListCtrl. Either grow up get over it and stop whining or stop shoving it down everyone’s throat. I have always wanted to know (not that you will respond), but if your vaporware is so great why don’t you have a public message board on your site? If you really wanted a testament to how great it is create a site powered by your stuff. :| Otherwise quite crying geez… :zzz:
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Grand putz, (I call you this because you don’t have the courage to at least use your first name on the board) :suss: Anyway your constant crying about your complier has become the new CListCtrl. Either grow up get over it and stop whining or stop shoving it down everyone’s throat. I have always wanted to know (not that you will respond), but if your vaporware is so great why don’t you have a public message board on your site? If you really wanted a testament to how great it is create a site powered by your stuff. :| Otherwise quite crying geez… :zzz:
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
S Douglas wrote:
Grand putz, (I call you this because you don’t have the courage to at least use your first name on the board)
My name is Gerry Rzeppa. I live at 1206 Hatter Road in Franklin, Kentucky, 42134. My phone number is 270-586-9864. I'm the founder of and Director of Research and Development for Relational Systems Corporation (www.era-sql.com) and have been for the past 26 years. I'm also, as you now know, the Grand Negus of the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers (www.osmosian.com).
S Douglas wrote:
Anyway your constant crying about your complier has become the new CListCtrl. Either grow up get over it and stop whining or stop shoving it down everyone’s throat.
A couple of examples here may help clear up the situation. An intermediate programmer, the other day, was looking for an more advanced project that would teach him good design and development techniques in C#. He posted in the General Discussions forum. I offered to lead him through a rewrite of our work, for free, in C#. The offer was deleted by the mob as spam. Today, I offered to share our page editor with another member who was looking to develop something very similar himself. Again, the offer was deleted. Had these perfectly reasonable, on-topic, and (I might say) generous offers been simply ignored by everyone but the original poster, there would have been no "whining" and "shoving" or lengthy threads re-hashing the issues. There would have been two and only posts, easily ignored (my title is displayed at the right of each post). Which brings us to...
S Douglas wrote:
I have always wanted to know (not that you will respond), but if your vaporware is so great why don’t you have a public message board on your site? If you really wanted a testament to how great it is create a site powered by your stuff.
First of all, it's not vaporware, and you shouldn't say that it is. That's nothing but libel. Secondly, we don't have a public forum on our site simply because we want to avoid the very things that happen here - we don't believe that "all men are created equal" and we therefore don't think that everyone should have an equal say on each and every topic. The discussions we have with our customers and others who are interested in our ideas are therefore conducted in an orderly fashion by direct email only. If you'd like to have such a conversation, wr
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S Douglas wrote:
Grand putz, (I call you this because you don’t have the courage to at least use your first name on the board)
My name is Gerry Rzeppa. I live at 1206 Hatter Road in Franklin, Kentucky, 42134. My phone number is 270-586-9864. I'm the founder of and Director of Research and Development for Relational Systems Corporation (www.era-sql.com) and have been for the past 26 years. I'm also, as you now know, the Grand Negus of the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers (www.osmosian.com).
S Douglas wrote:
Anyway your constant crying about your complier has become the new CListCtrl. Either grow up get over it and stop whining or stop shoving it down everyone’s throat.
A couple of examples here may help clear up the situation. An intermediate programmer, the other day, was looking for an more advanced project that would teach him good design and development techniques in C#. He posted in the General Discussions forum. I offered to lead him through a rewrite of our work, for free, in C#. The offer was deleted by the mob as spam. Today, I offered to share our page editor with another member who was looking to develop something very similar himself. Again, the offer was deleted. Had these perfectly reasonable, on-topic, and (I might say) generous offers been simply ignored by everyone but the original poster, there would have been no "whining" and "shoving" or lengthy threads re-hashing the issues. There would have been two and only posts, easily ignored (my title is displayed at the right of each post). Which brings us to...
S Douglas wrote:
I have always wanted to know (not that you will respond), but if your vaporware is so great why don’t you have a public message board on your site? If you really wanted a testament to how great it is create a site powered by your stuff.
First of all, it's not vaporware, and you shouldn't say that it is. That's nothing but libel. Secondly, we don't have a public forum on our site simply because we want to avoid the very things that happen here - we don't believe that "all men are created equal" and we therefore don't think that everyone should have an equal say on each and every topic. The discussions we have with our customers and others who are interested in our ideas are therefore conducted in an orderly fashion by direct email only. If you'd like to have such a conversation, wr
Actually Gerry, I have seen PE in action and will with hold my opinion of it as I won’t get into pissing matches with people on the internet its just not worth my time. It's been said before many times but seriously, you would serve your cause much better by not shoving it down peoples throats every time you post.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Again! See this[^] thread. Here is the original conversation (in case it gets deleted, again, in General Discussions). CoffeeAddict19 wrote: I'm thinking about writing a simple 2D CAD drawing program. It won't have anything near the complexity of a commercial CAD program, essentially it'll be a sophisticated vector based clone of MS Paint. It dosen't need to be multiplatform (windows xp/2000/vista). My question is, which graphics API or GUI would you recommend? MFC/GDI+, Qt4, OpenGL, DirectX, SDL? The only thing I won't use is .NET. The Grand Negus wrote: We used straight GDI for the bulk of the wysiwyg, vector-based page editor that is part of the development system we wrote, resorting to GDI+ only for the conversion functions that are missing in the old GDI (JPEG to BITMAP, for example). Our editor is simple and smooth and includes the usual graphics objects (rectangles, ellipses, lines, open and closed polygons, etc), plus text (in different fonts, styles, and colors) and pictures (which can be sized, cropped, rotated, mirrored, and flipped); it also supports grouping of objects (to any depth), various units of measure, snap grids, reduction, enlargement, multiple pages in different orientations, and it saves everything in ascii text. The interface is unique: it is modeless, and has none of the usual "tools"; nevertheless, it is easy to learn and very easy to use. I'd be glad to send you a copy, with source code, to give you some ideas - it's written in Plain English (about 4300 lines), but you can just think of it as pseudocode if you decide to write in another language. Interested? help@osmosian.com.
You should rather teach people your skills of persistence! I would have given up a long time ago :p
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xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
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S Douglas wrote:
Grand putz, (I call you this because you don’t have the courage to at least use your first name on the board)
My name is Gerry Rzeppa. I live at 1206 Hatter Road in Franklin, Kentucky, 42134. My phone number is 270-586-9864. I'm the founder of and Director of Research and Development for Relational Systems Corporation (www.era-sql.com) and have been for the past 26 years. I'm also, as you now know, the Grand Negus of the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers (www.osmosian.com).
S Douglas wrote:
Anyway your constant crying about your complier has become the new CListCtrl. Either grow up get over it and stop whining or stop shoving it down everyone’s throat.
A couple of examples here may help clear up the situation. An intermediate programmer, the other day, was looking for an more advanced project that would teach him good design and development techniques in C#. He posted in the General Discussions forum. I offered to lead him through a rewrite of our work, for free, in C#. The offer was deleted by the mob as spam. Today, I offered to share our page editor with another member who was looking to develop something very similar himself. Again, the offer was deleted. Had these perfectly reasonable, on-topic, and (I might say) generous offers been simply ignored by everyone but the original poster, there would have been no "whining" and "shoving" or lengthy threads re-hashing the issues. There would have been two and only posts, easily ignored (my title is displayed at the right of each post). Which brings us to...
S Douglas wrote:
I have always wanted to know (not that you will respond), but if your vaporware is so great why don’t you have a public message board on your site? If you really wanted a testament to how great it is create a site powered by your stuff.
First of all, it's not vaporware, and you shouldn't say that it is. That's nothing but libel. Secondly, we don't have a public forum on our site simply because we want to avoid the very things that happen here - we don't believe that "all men are created equal" and we therefore don't think that everyone should have an equal say on each and every topic. The discussions we have with our customers and others who are interested in our ideas are therefore conducted in an orderly fashion by direct email only. If you'd like to have such a conversation, wr
The Grand Negus wrote:
My name is Gerry Rzeppa. I live at 1206 Hatter Road in Franklin, Kentucky, 42134. My phone number is 270-586-9864. I'm the founder of and Director of Research and Development for Relational Systems Corporation (www.era-sql.com) and have been for the past 26 years. I'm also, as you now know, the Grand Negus of the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers (www.osmosian.com).
I gave you a 5, just for the arrogance :-) You are not such a bad type after all, are you?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Actually Gerry, I have seen PE in action and will with hold my opinion of it as I won’t get into pissing matches with people on the internet its just not worth my time. It's been said before many times but seriously, you would serve your cause much better by not shoving it down peoples throats every time you post.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
S Douglas wrote:
It's been said before many times but seriously, you would serve your cause much better by not shoving it down peoples throats every time you post.
He doesn't really shove it down anyone's throat (not recently anyway). But a lot of people don't like him here and so blindly vote him down. I'd say I am surprised that people are so obsessed with him that they go out of their way to track down his posts just so they can vote it down.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
You should rather teach people your skills of persistence! I would have given up a long time ago :p
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xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
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leppie wrote:
You should rather teach people your skills of persistence! I would have given up a long time ago :p xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
Thanks. But why are you - out of context - bringing up your xacc.ide product in a post addressed to me? :) I'm not jumping on you, really, though the signature does clutter the post and I have to read a bit of it (to make sure it's not part of your response to me) and then choose to either ignore or investigate it... Which sounds a great deal like "advertising" to me; that's exactly the effect advertisements have on people. If you've read these threads you know that others have suggested that I do the same kind of thing in a signature - but I just can't see how that isn't the very kind of "free advertising" and "spamming" that they object to. :confused:
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Actually Gerry, I have seen PE in action and will with hold my opinion of it as I won’t get into pissing matches with people on the internet its just not worth my time. It's been said before many times but seriously, you would serve your cause much better by not shoving it down peoples throats every time you post.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
S Douglas wrote:
Actually Gerry, I have seen PE in action
I guess I missed the part where you apologize for calling a product that you know exists "vaporware". And the part where you say, "Gee, I guess I was wrong about you not being willing to share your name." And the part where you say, "And I'm sorry for being wrong, a third time, for suggesting that you wouldn't explain why your website doesn't have a forum." Nevertheless, I am really curious about what kind of emotion makes a person go out of his way to attack the character of another whom he has never met face-to-face.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
My name is Gerry Rzeppa. I live at 1206 Hatter Road in Franklin, Kentucky, 42134. My phone number is 270-586-9864. I'm the founder of and Director of Research and Development for Relational Systems Corporation (www.era-sql.com) and have been for the past 26 years. I'm also, as you now know, the Grand Negus of the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers (www.osmosian.com).
I gave you a 5, just for the arrogance :-) You are not such a bad type after all, are you?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I gave you a 5, just for the arrogance You are not such a bad type after all, are you?
Would I call myself "The Grand Negus" - siting the hair in my ears as justification for the title - if I didn't have a sense of humor? :) Would I have the compiler himself describe himself throughout the documentation if I didn't have an imagination? :) Would I write our Manifesto in an easy-to-read but childlike, hand-printed font if I wasn't trying to be friendly? :) Really. We came here to have fun talking about programming and issues that face the programming community as a whole - and to hopefully make a bit of a difference. That's all. The rest has been much more of a trial for us - I assure you - than for any of the people here. :(
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leppie wrote:
You should rather teach people your skills of persistence! I would have given up a long time ago :p xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
Thanks. But why are you - out of context - bringing up your xacc.ide product in a post addressed to me? :) I'm not jumping on you, really, though the signature does clutter the post and I have to read a bit of it (to make sure it's not part of your response to me) and then choose to either ignore or investigate it... Which sounds a great deal like "advertising" to me; that's exactly the effect advertisements have on people. If you've read these threads you know that others have suggested that I do the same kind of thing in a signature - but I just can't see how that isn't the very kind of "free advertising" and "spamming" that they object to. :confused:
I actually had it bigger, especially after Chris removed images from sig's :( It used to be nice and neat :p
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xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
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code-frog wrote:
The owner can only do so much.
But it appears that a mere 2 votes caused the automatic removal of my offer to help the original poster. Is that a reasonable algorithm for a public forum?
code-frog wrote:
As a thought... Change your response to this...
Thanks for the suggestion, and I can see how that might lessen the probability that the Spam Patrol would spot my post and object. The thing is, I'm not writing to or for them, whoever they are. In this case, I am writing to CoffeeAddict19. And I want to give CoffeeAddict19 as much meaningful information as possible regarding what I'm proposing. Why should CoffeeAddict19 suffer because of either my (perceived) past or other - supposedly uninvolved - members?
The Grand Negus wrote:
Is that a reasonable algorithm for a public forum?
Maybe you're expecting too much from Code Project.
The Grand Negus wrote:
The thing is, I'm not writing to or for them, whoever they are. In this case, I am writing to CoffeeAddict19. And I want to give CoffeeAddict19 as much meaningful information as possible regarding what I'm proposing.
Well, when you change your help to a plug, then you're helping yourself and not the original poster. If you had left the response to just the blurb about GDI, then it would have been valid. But you used that opportunity to plug your product. That amounts to spam even though you cleverly disguised it as assistance.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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leppie wrote:
You should rather teach people your skills of persistence! I would have given up a long time ago :p xacc.ide-0.2.0.57 - now with C# 2.0 parser and seamless VS2005 solution support!
Thanks. But why are you - out of context - bringing up your xacc.ide product in a post addressed to me? :) I'm not jumping on you, really, though the signature does clutter the post and I have to read a bit of it (to make sure it's not part of your response to me) and then choose to either ignore or investigate it... Which sounds a great deal like "advertising" to me; that's exactly the effect advertisements have on people. If you've read these threads you know that others have suggested that I do the same kind of thing in a signature - but I just can't see how that isn't the very kind of "free advertising" and "spamming" that they object to. :confused:
Let me see if I can clarify for you. A signature is something that is external to the conversation. Kinda like wearing a t-shirt with an advert on it. Its not central to the discussion. But when you take the advertisement to the discussion, then it becomes spam. An advert can be ignored in the sig. It amounts to "shoving down throats" (apparently) when the advert is part of every discussion.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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Let me see if I can clarify for you. A signature is something that is external to the conversation. Kinda like wearing a t-shirt with an advert on it. Its not central to the discussion. But when you take the advertisement to the discussion, then it becomes spam. An advert can be ignored in the sig. It amounts to "shoving down throats" (apparently) when the advert is part of every discussion.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Or, another way to look at it is: we don't mind seeing it in your sig, if we're curious we'll hit the link, but we don't want to talk about it all the time.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
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code-frog wrote:
The owner can only do so much.
But it appears that a mere 2 votes caused the automatic removal of my offer to help the original poster. Is that a reasonable algorithm for a public forum?
code-frog wrote:
As a thought... Change your response to this...
Thanks for the suggestion, and I can see how that might lessen the probability that the Spam Patrol would spot my post and object. The thing is, I'm not writing to or for them, whoever they are. In this case, I am writing to CoffeeAddict19. And I want to give CoffeeAddict19 as much meaningful information as possible regarding what I'm proposing. Why should CoffeeAddict19 suffer because of either my (perceived) past or other - supposedly uninvolved - members?
The Grand Negus wrote:
Why should CoffeeAddict19 suffer because of either my (perceived) past or other - supposedly uninvolved - members?
He didnt. He would have received your post via email
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
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Or, another way to look at it is: we don't mind seeing it in your sig, if we're curious we'll hit the link, but we don't want to talk about it all the time.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Or, another way to look at it is: we don't mind seeing it in your sig, if we're curious we'll hit the link, but we don't want to talk about it all the time.
5-5-5-5-5-5-5!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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S Douglas wrote:
Actually Gerry, I have seen PE in action
I guess I missed the part where you apologize for calling a product that you know exists "vaporware". And the part where you say, "Gee, I guess I was wrong about you not being willing to share your name." And the part where you say, "And I'm sorry for being wrong, a third time, for suggesting that you wouldn't explain why your website doesn't have a forum." Nevertheless, I am really curious about what kind of emotion makes a person go out of his way to attack the character of another whom he has never met face-to-face.
The Grand Negus wrote:
I guess I missed the part where you apologize for calling a product that you know exists "vaporware".
As I said I have seen the end results of your language at work.
The Grand Negus wrote:
And the part where you say, "Gee, I guess I was wrong about you not being willing to share your name."
Your about this, I didn't I was running short on time. Nonetheless seems rather silly to create a persona to hide behind and carry the way you do.
The Grand Negus wrote:
a third time, for suggesting that you wouldn't explain why your website doesn't have a forum."
I don't buy into your rational for a lack of public forums.
The Grand Negus wrote:
Nevertheless, I am really curious about what kind of emotion makes a person go out of his way to attack the character of another whom he has never met face-to-face.
I didn’t attach you, I commented on your whining.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Or, another way to look at it is: we don't mind seeing it in your sig, if we're curious we'll hit the link, but we don't want to talk about it all the time.
5-5-5-5-5-5-5!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Ya know, this is an excellent opportunity to refine the craft of simplifying the point. I'm finding that its been quite difficult to boil down the issue to the simplest form possible such that contradiction is impossible. Don't know if I succeed that much, but this one above seemed to do it. And you got my 5 as change. I only needed 6. :laugh:
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder