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Ranting about MSDN2

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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    Dave Kreskowiak
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

    Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

    M C C C M 12 Replies Last reply
    0
    • D Dave Kreskowiak

      You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

      Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Marcus J Smith
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Not to mention it is easier to navigate MSDN2 through a Google search than the Microsoft site.


      Cleako

      D 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • D Dave Kreskowiak

        You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

        Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

        C Offline
        C Offline
        Clickok
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        I lived with dial-up and... I have installed the local MSDN library (from my CDs). :sigh: But now I have ADSL! I have extirpated MSDN from my computer! :-D


        Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
        For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:

        D 1 Reply Last reply
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        • M Marcus J Smith

          Not to mention it is easier to navigate MSDN2 through a Google search than the Microsoft site.


          Cleako

          D Offline
          D Offline
          Dave Kreskowiak
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Ain't that the truth! I can't tell you how many times I've searched on MSDN2 (I know - I like to punish myself!) and clicked on a link to a French or Russian or German version of the docs I'm looking for. Wow, did that search engine ever plow nose-first into the ground!!

          Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

          K 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • D Dave Kreskowiak

            You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

            Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

            C Offline
            C Offline
            Chris Losinger
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

            But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.

            maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.

            image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging

            D D J F 4 Replies Last reply
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            • C Clickok

              I lived with dial-up and... I have installed the local MSDN library (from my CDs). :sigh: But now I have ADSL! I have extirpated MSDN from my computer! :-D


              Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
              For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:

              D Offline
              D Offline
              Dave Kreskowiak
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.

              Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

              C D D 3 Replies Last reply
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              • C Chris Losinger

                Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

                But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.

                maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.

                image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging

                D Offline
                D Offline
                Dave Kreskowiak
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Chris Losinger wrote:

                maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX"

                :laugh: Maybe they are! And, then again, maybe they're not! Who knows... we might see a "cleaned up" version sometime in 2008... or 9. It's kind of like the government. They'll tell you they're going to implement something in, say, June or July, but they conspicuously never tell you which year they're talking about.

                Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • D Dave Kreskowiak

                  Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.

                  Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                  C Offline
                  C Offline
                  Clickok
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)


                  Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
                  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:

                  T D K R 4 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • C Clickok

                    Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)


                    Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
                    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:

                    T Offline
                    T Offline
                    Todd Smith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    It sounds like MSDN2 has been Vista'd.

                    Todd Smith

                    H 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • D Dave Kreskowiak

                      You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                      Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      code frog 0
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

                      How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?

                      I beat up some poor soul and stold all his bandwidth.:cool::rolleyes:

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • D Dave Kreskowiak

                        You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                        Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                        M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Member 96
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        It's utter crap. I avoid it if I can find another source on google. It's amazing how badly they've screwed that up but even more amazingly bad is the built in help in visual studio which is horrible. It's been a bit of a mystery for some time now why they haven't improved either one but just let them get worse and worse.

                        D 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • C Clickok

                          Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)


                          Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
                          For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:

                          D Offline
                          D Offline
                          Dave Kreskowiak
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          I wasn't looking for help. I was just complaining that every page in MSDN2 is now over 1MB is size, unnecessarily so.

                          Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                          J 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Member 96

                            It's utter crap. I avoid it if I can find another source on google. It's amazing how badly they've screwed that up but even more amazingly bad is the built in help in visual studio which is horrible. It's been a bit of a mystery for some time now why they haven't improved either one but just let them get worse and worse.

                            D Offline
                            D Offline
                            Dave Kreskowiak
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            :beer: I hear ya. We should have seen the warning signs for the quality and bloat of Vista. They've been staring us in the face in the form of MSDN and Visual Studio .NET 2005. That should have told us what was comming. I hate to see what's next! :laugh:

                            Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • D Dave Kreskowiak

                              You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                              Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                              P Offline
                              P Offline
                              peterchen
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              What's worse on dial up: no "base class members" link anymore. What's worse for all: The core library doesn't have enough concept information. What's better: more samples and Browsers with cache.


                              Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
                              We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
                              Linkify!|Fold With Us!

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                              • D Dave Kreskowiak

                                You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                                Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                                J Offline
                                J Offline
                                Joe Woodbury
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                By chance, I've had to use it for the past two days and it's horrible. I have a reasonably fast connection here at work, am using FireFox (for very convoluted reasons). Someone suggested AJAX, but I fail to see how that solves anything since some of the AJAX sites I go to are just as slow. What really bugs me is that the MSDN site was reasonably responsive.

                                Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • D Dave Kreskowiak

                                  Ain't that the truth! I can't tell you how many times I've searched on MSDN2 (I know - I like to punish myself!) and clicked on a link to a French or Russian or German version of the docs I'm looking for. Wow, did that search engine ever plow nose-first into the ground!!

                                  Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                                  K Offline
                                  K Offline
                                  Kevin McFarlane
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Perhaps this explains why MS is falling further behind in search.

                                  Kevin

                                  D 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • C Chris Losinger

                                    Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

                                    But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.

                                    maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.

                                    image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging

                                    D Offline
                                    D Offline
                                    David Wulff
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Chris Losinger wrote:

                                    they're poorly laid-out

                                    I really like the new Microsoft.com[^] homepage. You select the type of information you are looking for and a list of their matching sites comes up.


                                    Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                    Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                    I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

                                    L 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • D Dave Kreskowiak

                                      You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                                      Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                                      E Offline
                                      E Offline
                                      Ed Poore
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      An interesting trick I came across was if you put a (d=robot) before the extension, e.g. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.textbox_members(d=robot).aspx[^] Then you just get the actual page with no navigation contents at all, now if anyone would know how to get FF to redirect all msdn pages to the robot page then we'd be laughing, maybe tie it in with Google to allow fast searching :cool:

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • D David Wulff

                                        Chris Losinger wrote:

                                        they're poorly laid-out

                                        I really like the new Microsoft.com[^] homepage. You select the type of information you are looking for and a list of their matching sites comes up.


                                        Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                        Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                        I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Luis Alonso Ramos
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        I had not looked at it for a long time. It is very nice! :)

                                        Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico

                                        Not much here: My CP Blog!

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                                        • D Dave Kreskowiak

                                          You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:

                                          Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic

                                          S Offline
                                          S Offline
                                          Sarath C
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Earlier the site was too slow. The content will be loaded only after downloading the entire tree on LHS. We had to wait for 2-3 minutes to get a simple content. Now it has been improved a bit. If I go back to India, It will be more difficult for me since the net connection there's really slow. Now in Japan I'm enjoying 100 MbPS connection :-D

                                          -Sarath_._ "Great hopes make everything great possible" - Benjamin Franklin

                                          My blog - Sharing My Thoughts, An Article - Understanding Statepattern

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