Ranting about MSDN2
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I lived with dial-up and... I have installed the local MSDN library (from my CDs). :sigh: But now I have ADSL! I have extirpated MSDN from my computer! :-D
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.
maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Chris Losinger wrote:
maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX"
:laugh: Maybe they are! And, then again, maybe they're not! Who knows... we might see a "cleaned up" version sometime in 2008... or 9. It's kind of like the government. They'll tell you they're going to implement something in, say, June or July, but they conspicuously never tell you which year they're talking about.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger: -
Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:It sounds like MSDN2 has been Vista'd.
Todd Smith
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?
I beat up some poor soul and stold all his bandwidth.:cool::rolleyes:
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
It's utter crap. I avoid it if I can find another source on google. It's amazing how badly they've screwed that up but even more amazingly bad is the built in help in visual studio which is horrible. It's been a bit of a mystery for some time now why they haven't improved either one but just let them get worse and worse.
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Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:I wasn't looking for help. I was just complaining that every page in MSDN2 is now over 1MB is size, unnecessarily so.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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It's utter crap. I avoid it if I can find another source on google. It's amazing how badly they've screwed that up but even more amazingly bad is the built in help in visual studio which is horrible. It's been a bit of a mystery for some time now why they haven't improved either one but just let them get worse and worse.
:beer: I hear ya. We should have seen the warning signs for the quality and bloat of Vista. They've been staring us in the face in the form of MSDN and Visual Studio .NET 2005. That should have told us what was comming. I hate to see what's next! :laugh:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
What's worse on dial up: no "base class members" link anymore. What's worse for all: The core library doesn't have enough concept information. What's better: more samples and Browsers with cache.
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
By chance, I've had to use it for the past two days and it's horrible. I have a reasonably fast connection here at work, am using FireFox (for very convoluted reasons). Someone suggested AJAX, but I fail to see how that solves anything since some of the AJAX sites I go to are just as slow. What really bugs me is that the MSDN site was reasonably responsive.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Ain't that the truth! I can't tell you how many times I've searched on MSDN2 (I know - I like to punish myself!) and clicked on a link to a French or Russian or German version of the docs I'm looking for. Wow, did that search engine ever plow nose-first into the ground!!
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Perhaps this explains why MS is falling further behind in search.
Kevin
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.
maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Chris Losinger wrote:
they're poorly laid-out
I really like the new Microsoft.com[^] homepage. You select the type of information you are looking for and a list of their matching sites comes up.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
An interesting trick I came across was if you put a (d=robot) before the extension, e.g. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.textbox_members(d=robot).aspx[^] Then you just get the actual page with no navigation contents at all, now if anyone would know how to get FF to redirect all msdn pages to the robot page then we'd be laughing, maybe tie it in with Google to allow fast searching :cool:
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Chris Losinger wrote:
they're poorly laid-out
I really like the new Microsoft.com[^] homepage. You select the type of information you are looking for and a list of their matching sites comes up.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkI had not looked at it for a long time. It is very nice! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Earlier the site was too slow. The content will be loaded only after downloading the entire tree on LHS. We had to wait for 2-3 minutes to get a simple content. Now it has been improved a bit. If I go back to India, It will be more difficult for me since the net connection there's really slow. Now in Japan I'm enjoying 100 MbPS connection :-D
-Sarath_._ "Great hopes make everything great possible" - Benjamin Franklin
My blog - Sharing My Thoughts, An Article - Understanding Statepattern
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An interesting trick I came across was if you put a (d=robot) before the extension, e.g. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.textbox_members(d=robot).aspx[^] Then you just get the actual page with no navigation contents at all, now if anyone would know how to get FF to redirect all msdn pages to the robot page then we'd be laughing, maybe tie it in with Google to allow fast searching :cool:
What I'd like to see is the navigation contents loaded just once, maybe under AJAX, and like the old site, it only loads the levels it needs and caches them. When you start navigating down it'll load only those branches that you need now. And when you finally click on a leaf node, it just loads the one page in the frame on the right. There's no reason for it to reload the entire frameset and reload the entire navigation pane. We've all seen sites that do this correctly, so why MS has to do it the bad way I'll never know.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Perhaps this explains why MS is falling further behind in search.
Kevin
Yeah - then the inevitable happens. They go buy either Yahoo or Google to make up the shortfall.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
I've got a paltry 1.3Mb connection and each page I visited rendered in just 3-4 seconds. Are you connected anywhere near 44Mb?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:If you know the page you're looking for (i.e. for a .NET Framework class), you can skip step 4 and just use the path as the URL (ala http://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/system.web.ui.page.aspx[^]). The d=printer or d=bot (as someone else mentioned) are pretty handy in those cases as well.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
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Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:And the obligatory "Get Firefox" in every place possible.