Ranting about MSDN2
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An interesting trick I came across was if you put a (d=robot) before the extension, e.g. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.textbox_members(d=robot).aspx[^] Then you just get the actual page with no navigation contents at all, now if anyone would know how to get FF to redirect all msdn pages to the robot page then we'd be laughing, maybe tie it in with Google to allow fast searching :cool:
What I'd like to see is the navigation contents loaded just once, maybe under AJAX, and like the old site, it only loads the levels it needs and caches them. When you start navigating down it'll load only those branches that you need now. And when you finally click on a leaf node, it just loads the one page in the frame on the right. There's no reason for it to reload the entire frameset and reload the entire navigation pane. We've all seen sites that do this correctly, so why MS has to do it the bad way I'll never know.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Perhaps this explains why MS is falling further behind in search.
Kevin
Yeah - then the inevitable happens. They go buy either Yahoo or Google to make up the shortfall.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
I've got a paltry 1.3Mb connection and each page I visited rendered in just 3-4 seconds. Are you connected anywhere near 44Mb?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:If you know the page you're looking for (i.e. for a .NET Framework class), you can skip step 4 and just use the path as the URL (ala http://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/system.web.ui.page.aspx[^]). The d=printer or d=bot (as someone else mentioned) are pretty handy in those cases as well.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
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Some tips: 1) Get Firefox[^]; 2) Install the NoScript Firefox Add-on[^] 3) You can "Allow JavaScript Globally", but... 4) ...when you want anything from MSDN2.. 5) ...search in Google (example: system.web.ui.page); 6) Block JavaScript Globally; 7) Click the link (found via Google); 8) You will notice that the "contents" frame will load faster, with the results that you wish. The left frame, with the tree, will finish to load after (but it is irrelevant, now you will use Google to navigate ;)) I hope that it help you. :)
Engaged in learning of English grammar ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:And the obligatory "Get Firefox" in every place possible.
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It sounds like MSDN2 has been Vista'd.
Todd Smith
No, it sounds like MSDN2 has been Jet Blue'd.
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What I'd like to see is the navigation contents loaded just once, maybe under AJAX, and like the old site, it only loads the levels it needs and caches them. When you start navigating down it'll load only those branches that you need now. And when you finally click on a leaf node, it just loads the one page in the frame on the right. There's no reason for it to reload the entire frameset and reload the entire navigation pane. We've all seen sites that do this correctly, so why MS has to do it the bad way I'll never know.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
I've got a paltry 1.3Mb connection and each page I visited rendered in just 3-4 seconds. Are you connected anywhere near 44Mb?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
A T3 plus another 8 T1's. Managed by the government, so it's crippled down to about ADSL speed! :laugh:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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I wasn't looking for help. I was just complaining that every page in MSDN2 is now over 1MB is size, unnecessarily so.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
"I wasn't looking for help. I was just complaining" I am sorry, but that sounds like my wife ;P:laugh:
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.
maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
You will love this:
//----------------------------------------------------------------------- // Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. //----------------------------------------------------------------------- // AtlasRuntime.js // Atlas Runtime Framework.:) and many of this can be found on every MSDN2 page!!! If I have developed sites like that I would be fired in no time :-D Jacek -
Yeah - then the inevitable happens. They go buy either Yahoo or Google to make up the shortfall.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
I think Google is out of the question now but it was a possibility around 2000 apparently. Yahoo would be more likely. However, I suspect they wouldn't be allowed to.
Kevin
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an asstounding 1MB.
maybe they should investigate this amazing new technology called "AJAX" MS's web sites have always sucked; they're poorly laid-out, slow and ugly.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Yeah and half the examples refer to some beta code release of an API that has been superceeded by api with a totally different name!
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Guy, I've got a T3 (and then some) comming out of this site and it still takes way too long for that navigation pane to load and render.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
AMEN! I am running aprox 5.0 Mbits/sec D/L speed, and some times it seems like I could take that morning break while it fully loads. I am exaggerating but it is bothersome to say the least. And I am sooo glad for highspeed connections. :laugh:
DB_Cooper1950 "Life is like a box of..."
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
As far as I know, MSDN is too hard to use so it's easier for people to go to Google and type in what you want. MSDN2? about time, I wonder if they have fixed anything yet. MS may think the whole world has broadband, but then again, once your 1MB is cached it may not need to load again. Java documentation was sooo easy to use for reference and class lookup etc... Then I tried learning Asp.Net - holy crap :wtf: it was impossible to find any information that didn't look like it was written by a robot. MSDN = headache Hopefully MSDN2 is easier to use, specially for new coders and coders new to another language.
my Mind is flowing with ideas - Mindflow
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You know...it wasn't too long ago that Microsoft had this rule about web pages on their site. No page on any MS site should download more than about 100K. More if there were extensive graphics on the page. But, on MSDN2 (not a graphics heavy site mind you), the freakin' navigation contents on left side weigh in at just under an _ass_tounding 1MB. That's the navigation alone, not including the header of the page, it's graphics, the main page content, or the JavaScript code behind it all! How do you guys with dial-up connections put up with this?? That's 10 minutes to download just the table of contents on every mouse click! :wtf:
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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As far as I know, MSDN is too hard to use so it's easier for people to go to Google and type in what you want. MSDN2? about time, I wonder if they have fixed anything yet. MS may think the whole world has broadband, but then again, once your 1MB is cached it may not need to load again. Java documentation was sooo easy to use for reference and class lookup etc... Then I tried learning Asp.Net - holy crap :wtf: it was impossible to find any information that didn't look like it was written by a robot. MSDN = headache Hopefully MSDN2 is easier to use, specially for new coders and coders new to another language.
my Mind is flowing with ideas - Mindflow
Mindflow wrote:
MSDN2? about time, I wonder if they have fixed anything yet.
It's actually gone backwards. It's bit harder to use than MSDN1.
Mindflow wrote:
but then again, once your 1MB is cached it may not need to load again.
The TOC doesn't get cached. It's reloaded every time a leaf node is clicked or the main content page is changed.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Mindflow wrote:
MSDN2? about time, I wonder if they have fixed anything yet.
It's actually gone backwards. It's bit harder to use than MSDN1.
Mindflow wrote:
but then again, once your 1MB is cached it may not need to load again.
The TOC doesn't get cached. It's reloaded every time a leaf node is clicked or the main content page is changed.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Wow, they really have issues at that place! I'm betting Bill starts a new company from the ground up. Why not? I've discovered that the web is powering us to gathering heaps of data and not store it for efficient access. Look at the state of some; - blogs (2 mins to load, 30 pages long) - mySpace pages (um, like a junkyard, full of sht) - youTube (and others, 1,000 comments no one reads once off the first page) - my browser favourites :) (FF) What a mess, hopefully my new del.icio.us addon will help, cross my fingers) hmm... come to think of it, now I do more bookmarking than ever! :sigh: The list goes on and on; we are now storing data with the notion that it will be easy to access, but just becomes burried.
my Mind is flowing with ideas - Mindflow