Which platform?
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
The premise of your fears, that C++ is going away on MS machines in not founded in fact or reality. You really should think of C# as more of the VB of C languages and more of a simplified (almost idiot proof) API. C# is great for programming tools rapidly (especially since a junior guy can do it), and for rapidly creating great UI's easily in a GUI. So, as someone else mentioned, your choice should really depend on the application you intend to program, and your preference. As long as it is not a real-time FPS game, you can do it in C# if you want.
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
I've moved from primarly C++/MFC to Managed C++. It's interesting (odd) that no one has mentioned that option to this point. As for Microsoft 'killing' C++ ?? If I'm not mistaken, C# was intended to replace VB. Well, it looks like VB.NET shows how well that worked out. And, of course, there's always the Linux solution. In fact, astounding as it may seem, I would predict some serious loss of market share for Microsoft to Linux as it becomes ever more plug-and-play for those who want the simplicity . . . and, to paraphrase Bill Gates (w.r.t. web browswers): the pricing is rather competitive. C++ - because you gotta do what ya gotta do. Balboos
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
As others have said, it all depends on the type of app you are developing. If you are doing anything targetted for the Enterprise, Java or C# is almost certainly the way to go. If its targetted at consumer stuff or techinical markets, native code is still heavily dominant (for example an informal survey at the ESWC last year showed that only something like 5% of participants in that sector were writing for .NET. C++ and Delphi dominated). Don't worry about C++ and Win32 not being supported. That's far from the case (MFC 9 will include support for WPF, for example) - and in fact Vista has a whole pile of new APIs which haven't even made it into .NET yet.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
New Project! Lucky you. Now slap yourself for even considering Win32 X| ! New project, new technology! Take full advantage of .NET. It is THE development platform for Windows for the next decade+. Language? .NET DOES NOT MEAN C#! Leverage what talent you have, decide which language is best for the individual components of your project and use it's .NET equivalent. Strive to compile as clr:pure. Stick with managed code. If you are a C++ programmer, take the time (very little required) to learn C++/CLI and leverage your C++ knowledge. Ain't that right, Nish!? If your new project has a user interface, i.e., it's not only a bunch of device drivers or low level API's, whip it up with Windows Presentation Foundation. Once the corporate world learns what kind of visual experience is possible with WPF applications, THEY will be demanding it and driving it's use. Furthermore, they will become THE visual designers of their applications, not the software engineer. But that's just my 2 cents. :)
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
C++ is always going to be around. I wouldn't use C++ for anything but writing games close to cutting edge though. .NET is my tool of choice for almost any business application or web site. Quicker development, more understandable code and easier maintenance give .NET the nod.
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
If you have a large investment in reusable C++ code, in house libraries and even purchased libraries then why not go with C++ .NET? Visual Studio 2005 has done wonders with the C++ language and interface. They have really cleaned up their act since VS 2003 .NET. What type of personnel investment do you have in C++? Microsoft is going to go where the $$$ is, that is, if the majority of the developers who purchase their products are VB programmers then that's where Microsoft will invest their money and support, if they are C# programmers then that's where they will invest their money and support, and if by some lucky chance C++ programmers reign, then that is where they will invest their money and support. I believe the jury is still out on as to whether Microsoft is 100% behind its C++ .NET language. In fact when Microsoft drop the ball with its previous versions of .NET C++, we stayed with C++ 6.0 and some switched to C++ Builder 6 out of frustration with the giant. For your own personal growth and edification, sometimes it is good for the soul and your sanity to venture into a new language especially if it may enhance productivity over the long haul! If you see Microsoft Windows development in your future for a very long time, now might be the time to start transitioning your staff to .NET development, no matter which language you choose.
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Once upon a time, when IBM ruled the world, they came with a new language called PL/1. They said it the state of the art language, you can do anything with it and it will be the language of the future. They had a lot of influence so PL/1 stayed for many years in the market but now it's gone. Microsoft will not decide which will be the language of the future. Microsoft do not care. They want to sell Windows and Office. To do it they need us, the programmers to develop programs for Windows. If a critical mass will move to C# and .NET, they might consider not supporting C and C++ but if not, they will not do it. Windows programming is not everything. Unix still exists and Embedded programming exists also. When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++. And to my third thought of the subject. Each programming language as a place where it fills good to use it: FORTRAN for mathematical calculations. COBOL for database programming. RPG for database reports. PHP for web server side programming. C and C++ for fast execution code and devices programming. BASIC for fast GUI programming. Java for platform independence. What is the place for ASP? C#? Just to remind you, a server with PHP can hold many more clients than ASP. C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++. Are we buying faster computers so we could run the same application which now runs slower? Regards, Reuven Nisser
-
Chris Losinger wrote:
which would make 100% of pre-2003 applications incompatible. that'd be awesome!
Yeah, but the next major OS (post-Vista) won't be out till maybe 2012-2013 or so.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)When MS releases a replacement spec for the PE file specification (which all "native" apps and dlls are) and they move the system dlls, the kernel and the loader to this new specification I think that native apps are safe. Even then, there is no reason why c/c++ couldn't be compiled to a different spec. On linux it compiles to the ELF spec.
-
Chris Losinger wrote:
then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications, especially if they have to target a moving-target framework like .Net.
Well pre-2003 would be 10 years and not 5. And ever since .NET was out around 2000-2001, it was evident that, that'd be the future of writing apps on Microsoft OSes. People were given adequate time to move on to newer technologies.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)IMO MS won't eliminate C++ (and probably not COM, either) for applications because, as one other poster indicated - there are just some tasks better done in C++. Sometimes that's for performance reasons (in which case they could support C++ but not the C++ Windows API); other times, however, there are things that can be done through the API that simply cannot be done throught the .Net object set. Yet. And, in general they have shown a great desire to remain backwards compatible - which suggests that they would not happily release an OS that caused people with legacy apps to say "Well, the app is more important than the OS upgrade: sorry MS, you don't get my upgrade revenue this time." That, probably, is the "killer app" of programming support - will it help or hinder the sale of the next OS? Balanced against, of course, a projection of total revenue earned on that OS vs. total development and support costs involved in persisting the old API. ~Chris Ice is like water, only harder.
-
As it was mentioned before it depends on type of the project. If you do some very specific stuff like database or hardware providers, you probably have no choice and you must go into C++ direction. If you do pretty standard stuff, which does not require very advanced functionality and access to WinAPI you probably should go with C# as there is much more samples on the web and you simply can create app faster especially, when very is extensive GUI. The third choice is that you create most of app in C# and you distinguish couple of libraries which will be done in C++. I am not going to get into "Java vs MS platform" topic as this is a religious discussion and you must choose yourself which God do you believe in :-> I wish you luck in your choices as on this stage it is like getting married :laugh:
------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
This is everything I was thinking, great post. Except for the marriage line -- but ain't that the truth!
-
Once upon a time, when IBM ruled the world, they came with a new language called PL/1. They said it the state of the art language, you can do anything with it and it will be the language of the future. They had a lot of influence so PL/1 stayed for many years in the market but now it's gone. Microsoft will not decide which will be the language of the future. Microsoft do not care. They want to sell Windows and Office. To do it they need us, the programmers to develop programs for Windows. If a critical mass will move to C# and .NET, they might consider not supporting C and C++ but if not, they will not do it. Windows programming is not everything. Unix still exists and Embedded programming exists also. When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++. And to my third thought of the subject. Each programming language as a place where it fills good to use it: FORTRAN for mathematical calculations. COBOL for database programming. RPG for database reports. PHP for web server side programming. C and C++ for fast execution code and devices programming. BASIC for fast GUI programming. Java for platform independence. What is the place for ASP? C#? Just to remind you, a server with PHP can hold many more clients than ASP. C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++. Are we buying faster computers so we could run the same application which now runs slower? Regards, Reuven Nisser
Reuven Nisser wrote:
When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++.
Reuven Nisser wrote:
COBOL for database programming
Reuven Nisser wrote:
C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++.
:confused::confused::confused: Man, what planet are you from??
-
As it was mentioned before it depends on type of the project. If you do some very specific stuff like database or hardware providers, you probably have no choice and you must go into C++ direction. If you do pretty standard stuff, which does not require very advanced functionality and access to WinAPI you probably should go with C# as there is much more samples on the web and you simply can create app faster especially, when very is extensive GUI. The third choice is that you create most of app in C# and you distinguish couple of libraries which will be done in C++. I am not going to get into "Java vs MS platform" topic as this is a religious discussion and you must choose yourself which God do you believe in :-> I wish you luck in your choices as on this stage it is like getting married :laugh:
------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
Koszyk wrote:
As it was mentioned before it depends on type of the project
Yep, I know. But the bosses wouldn't even consider C++/Win32. However thanks to many entries I've found in MSDN blogs, articles, etc, regarding the future of C++ under Windows, I think they'll have to change their minds.
Koszyk wrote:
I wish you luck in your choices as on this stage it is like getting married
Hehe, well, that's it: I'll never get married then :). Thanks for your comments.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option.
Where did the PHB's read this? Please have them supply a verifiable source and not a random blog like Gizmodo or Digg...
Mike Poz
Well... er... they gave me the sources, yet since they weren't from MSDN (and thus they're not official) I didn't payed attention. :->
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
Why not consider other platforms? How about the new Adobe Apollo? Or go one step forward, and make your app web-based by using Adobe Flex Builder? Currently we are writing a very large application using Flex Builder and its great! Development is very quick and easy (data, by the way, is coming from web-services we write in C#) My roots will always be C++ and Win32, but for new apps you have to consider other things than Microsoft's future support: Ease of development, speed of development, maintainability, etc.
Lior Gonnen wrote:
Why not consider other platforms?
At this stage, we are beginning to consider the platforms, and I was commanded to make a study about this. And for a particular module, we'll have to do some web programming. I'll review your suggestions.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
:omg: Without C++, there won't be C# nor Java and -most likely- you'd be programming in VB. The Apocalypses.:) -- modified at 12:36 Thursday 22nd March, 2007
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
:omg: Without C++, there won't be C# nor Java and -most likely- you'd be programming in VB. The Apocalypses.:) -- modified at 12:36 Thursday 22nd March, 2007
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
-
then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
-
Reuven Nisser wrote:
When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++.
Reuven Nisser wrote:
COBOL for database programming
Reuven Nisser wrote:
C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++.
:confused::confused::confused: Man, what planet are you from??
>>> When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++. Last time I heard there is no C# compiler for embedded systems. Does Simbian operating system or Sharc processors have C# compiler? Am I wrong? The world does not end with Microsoft Windows or Unix. >>> COBOL for database programming To remind you, one of the posts to this thread was talking about people still earning money from COBOL and RPG. >>> C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++. I do not know which tests you made, but I work with embedded system alot and as such, checked the assembly code produced by C++ and I even wrote assembly code in order to speed up some tasks. As such, I think I can safely say that in most cases emulation code will be much slower than native code. If you prove otherwise, you will change some theories in computer science and get a prize. Regards, Reuven Nisser
-
Once upon a time, when IBM ruled the world, they came with a new language called PL/1. They said it the state of the art language, you can do anything with it and it will be the language of the future. They had a lot of influence so PL/1 stayed for many years in the market but now it's gone. Microsoft will not decide which will be the language of the future. Microsoft do not care. They want to sell Windows and Office. To do it they need us, the programmers to develop programs for Windows. If a critical mass will move to C# and .NET, they might consider not supporting C and C++ but if not, they will not do it. Windows programming is not everything. Unix still exists and Embedded programming exists also. When a programmer wants to cross platform his code, he can not use C# and .NET, he needs to use C and C++. And to my third thought of the subject. Each programming language as a place where it fills good to use it: FORTRAN for mathematical calculations. COBOL for database programming. RPG for database reports. PHP for web server side programming. C and C++ for fast execution code and devices programming. BASIC for fast GUI programming. Java for platform independence. What is the place for ASP? C#? Just to remind you, a server with PHP can hold many more clients than ASP. C# and .NET are very slow in comparison with C and C++. Are we buying faster computers so we could run the same application which now runs slower? Regards, Reuven Nisser