Salary for 5+ years exp programmer
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
DeepWaters wrote:
Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is?
I wish I made that much with 20+ years experience!! 15 years with the company. But the truth of the matter is... as was mentioned, it differs widely: If cost of living is higher/lower, pay "should be" higher/lower. This makes a job in California for 120K look much better than a job in Arizona/New Mexico at 100K, but take the job in Arizona/New Mexico because net pay is higher due to huge cost of living differences. If there is a market demand in the area, with unfilled positions, pay will be higher to draw in outside people. However is demand is low and there are 1000 applicants for every position, pay will often be lower. Benefits can weight a job more than its annual income, review them too. If out-of-pocket on medical is extremely low, you could end up saving 5k-10k a year depending on health needs, and family situation. Salary expectations are a common question, mostly because if you expect 250K for a job that pays 90K, both you and they are wasting their time and both of you can move on to other prospects. When the expectations are near the same, they are "sometimes" negotiable. Chances are your boss will not pay you more than he makes, but he won't tell you what that is, so negotiations will only go so far and then end as if they hit a brick wall. If you have a minimum that is above their maximum, again both of you are wasting each other's time. It really pays to do your homework for a region, check online, check the papers, scan the pay ranges heavily. Knowing what you expect helps you not go too low for your own survival in that region, and not waste everyone's time by expecting too much for that region. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Maximilien wrote:
is this in $US ????
yes 120 k is just a figure, but i am sure there are company paying that much to senior developers
5 years of experience DOES NOT make you a senior developer.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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DeepWaters wrote:
Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is?
I wish I made that much with 20+ years experience!! 15 years with the company. But the truth of the matter is... as was mentioned, it differs widely: If cost of living is higher/lower, pay "should be" higher/lower. This makes a job in California for 120K look much better than a job in Arizona/New Mexico at 100K, but take the job in Arizona/New Mexico because net pay is higher due to huge cost of living differences. If there is a market demand in the area, with unfilled positions, pay will be higher to draw in outside people. However is demand is low and there are 1000 applicants for every position, pay will often be lower. Benefits can weight a job more than its annual income, review them too. If out-of-pocket on medical is extremely low, you could end up saving 5k-10k a year depending on health needs, and family situation. Salary expectations are a common question, mostly because if you expect 250K for a job that pays 90K, both you and they are wasting their time and both of you can move on to other prospects. When the expectations are near the same, they are "sometimes" negotiable. Chances are your boss will not pay you more than he makes, but he won't tell you what that is, so negotiations will only go so far and then end as if they hit a brick wall. If you have a minimum that is above their maximum, again both of you are wasting each other's time. It really pays to do your homework for a region, check online, check the papers, scan the pay ranges heavily. Knowing what you expect helps you not go too low for your own survival in that region, and not waste everyone's time by expecting too much for that region. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
So what you think what is the best a programmer can get after say 5-6 years of experience ? BTW work weekend poem is cool :D
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5 years of experience DOES NOT make you a senior developer.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Maximilien wrote:
DOES NOT make you a senior developer
yes thats true , i mean the job you applied for is for a senior developer is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
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So what you think what is the best a programmer can get after say 5-6 years of experience ? BTW work weekend poem is cool :D
DeepWaters wrote:
So what you think what is the best a programmer can get after say 5-6 years of experience ?
Here? about 100K would be a heavenly job for any experience, but 40-60K would be more likely. But we have some of the lowest cost-of-living areas, at least until gas started to rise. You might go as high as 75K in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, NM... but then those again have higher cost of living, Santa Fe is the highest in the state if I recall. I started at under 30K with 6 years experience back in 1992.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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well my point is, if the position needs a senior person and the project/product whatever is a big one, the company must have some figure for the new recruit. They should not base there offer based on the current salary of the guy, but rather on the position or the job itself
DeepWaters wrote:
They should not base there offer based on the current salary of the guy, but rather on the position or the job itself
True, but they can get a deal with someone making less. Offering someone 50K who is making 25K will save money, and make the employee happier, than offering someone 60K who is making 58K if 60K is their ceiling. And it offers the company some room for raises, if you come in at your ceiling and get unhappy every raise you get minimum on, you will leave. If they bring you in below your ceiling, they can give you better raises and keep you longer. That is exactly how they got me. :-D We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Maximilien wrote:
DOES NOT make you a senior developer
yes thats true , i mean the job you applied for is for a senior developer is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
DeepWaters wrote:
is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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well my point is, if the position needs a senior person and the project/product whatever is a big one, the company must have some figure for the new recruit. They should not base there offer based on the current salary of the guy, but rather on the position or the job itself
You have to see this from the hiring managers point of view. If it were up to me I would get the best developer I could and pay him/her what they want. But I'm given a range of what I can offer so I try to get the best developer I can in that range. If you go to Salary.com you will see the same thing hiring managers see in terms of figuring out what to pay people. In other words I don't base my offer on what you ask for, I base it on what I've been told I can pay someone. It takes a ton of time to hire someone and I'm not going to waste my time and yours trying to fill a position that I can only offer 60K if your already making 90k. If you still act interested I'm going to wonder what's wrong with you that you would want a 30k pay cut.
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Maximilien wrote:
is this in $US ????
yes 120 k is just a figure, but i am sure there are company paying that much to senior developers
I doubt it. I would think 90k max for a developer. IF your making more then that stay there. If you are managing people you might be making 120K if you have a fair number of people.
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So what you think what is the best a programmer can get after say 5-6 years of experience ? BTW work weekend poem is cool :D
Go to www.salary.com[^]
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Tad McClellan wrote:
Go to www.salary.com[^]
yup, about what I said. :) or less.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
I think in most parts of the USA, 120K would be over-the-top unless the person had lead or project lead experience and brought good management skills to the table. More like $60K-$80K would be common. BTW, the thing I hate about any job searches is that the businesses should list the high/low they are willing to pay. Waste of time to go to a job interview, get all the way through it and have them offer you far below what you would even work for anyway. It is even worse if you have to travel for the interview. Let them post up front what their target salary range. I instantly ignore any company that has wage listed as "market"!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID - C# project! Latest Tech Blog Post: Want to test Joost (video on demand) - I have invites!
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DeepWaters wrote:
is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
:laugh: Good one!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] Enjoy! Vote! Learn! Love! Save the whales! Eat raw diamonds! Do the Foxtrot in your tighty-whiteys! Start fires! Kill Martians!
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DeepWaters wrote:
Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is?
is this in $US ???? Me thing you are shooting for the moon !!! I think a good advice is to ask for about 12% higher than you are actually making; or at least more than what you would get after a reasonable raise at your current job; so you can after that bargain with them.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Maximilien wrote:
Me thing you are shooting for the moon !!!
Many financial sofware shops will happily pay that kind of money for a reasonably smart developer. And more if you have a financial (quantitative) background. /ravi
This is your brain on Celcius Home | Music | Articles | Freeware | Trips ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
:laugh: Good one!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] Enjoy! Vote! Learn! Love! Save the whales! Eat raw diamonds! Do the Foxtrot in your tighty-whiteys! Start fires! Kill Martians!
Josh Smith wrote:
Good one!
Ironically... it came to me when I was looking for a latin word for train specifically to make a joke. Tractor and Train both come from Tractus (something about pulling things). And when I saw Tractus in the word-origin, it just came to me. Tractus Runoverus. :) Personally I prefer the safer version of Tractus Raceus and even Tractus Stopus (even though the latter is very annoying if it is a long species).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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DeepWaters wrote:
They should not base there offer based on the current salary of the guy, but rather on the position or the job itself
True, but they can get a deal with someone making less. Offering someone 50K who is making 25K will save money, and make the employee happier, than offering someone 60K who is making 58K if 60K is their ceiling. And it offers the company some room for raises, if you come in at your ceiling and get unhappy every raise you get minimum on, you will leave. If they bring you in below your ceiling, they can give you better raises and keep you longer. That is exactly how they got me. :-D We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises. I'd much rather be miserble with all that money up front. ;)
Learning is not a spectator sport. - D. Blocher
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises. I'd much rather be miserble with all that money up front. ;)
Learning is not a spectator sport. - D. Blocher
Jerry Hammond wrote:
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises.
Actually, it was the biggest raise that got me in trouble. When I got a competing offer, they matched it, 30% raise. But my wife at that time hated me for it, because I then made more than her by more than a few dollars. Perhaps it cost me, but then they took a big risk. I jumped from accounting software to engineering/graphics. That was a risky move, they reduced that risk by giving me a chance.... well, and they had no other qualified applicants for the job. I came with a recommendation from one of their own engineers, so even with the risk I was a safer bet. I was working for 22,400 as an accounting programmer (one man shop), so I got a higher paying job also. It's never as simple as it looks on paper. They didn't regret it, and I have paid them back with good products. They paid me back with good raises. Quid pro quo. If I had stayed in accounting I would not have received as good of raises, nor would I ever receive the salary I do now. So we both benefited from a chance to show what I can do.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
DeepWaters wrote:
I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary , and i almost never tell them.
Fact is, they want to know what they need to pay to get you. They want to pay as little as they can, you want as much as they will pay. An inability to discuss and negotiate this, will mean you'll never make a high wage. If asked what I am making now, I would always inflate the figure slightly, they are not going to ask to see pay slips.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
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DeepWaters wrote:
I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary , and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ?
Cause if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job.
Robert Surtees wrote:
if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job.
And if I'm currently making $35,000 you won't offer me $60,000 either - you'll continue to screw me like my current employer. That's the real reason employers ask this, to see how little they can get away with offering.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"