Salary for 5+ years exp programmer
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So what you think what is the best a programmer can get after say 5-6 years of experience ? BTW work weekend poem is cool :D
Go to www.salary.com[^]
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Tad McClellan wrote:
Go to www.salary.com[^]
yup, about what I said. :) or less.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
I think in most parts of the USA, 120K would be over-the-top unless the person had lead or project lead experience and brought good management skills to the table. More like $60K-$80K would be common. BTW, the thing I hate about any job searches is that the businesses should list the high/low they are willing to pay. Waste of time to go to a job interview, get all the way through it and have them offer you far below what you would even work for anyway. It is even worse if you have to travel for the interview. Let them post up front what their target salary range. I instantly ignore any company that has wage listed as "market"!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID - C# project! Latest Tech Blog Post: Want to test Joost (video on demand) - I have invites!
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DeepWaters wrote:
is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
:laugh: Good one!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] Enjoy! Vote! Learn! Love! Save the whales! Eat raw diamonds! Do the Foxtrot in your tighty-whiteys! Start fires! Kill Martians!
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DeepWaters wrote:
Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is?
is this in $US ???? Me thing you are shooting for the moon !!! I think a good advice is to ask for about 12% higher than you are actually making; or at least more than what you would get after a reasonable raise at your current job; so you can after that bargain with them.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Maximilien wrote:
Me thing you are shooting for the moon !!!
Many financial sofware shops will happily pay that kind of money for a reasonably smart developer. And more if you have a financial (quantitative) background. /ravi
This is your brain on Celcius Home | Music | Articles | Freeware | Trips ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
:laugh: Good one!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] Enjoy! Vote! Learn! Love! Save the whales! Eat raw diamonds! Do the Foxtrot in your tighty-whiteys! Start fires! Kill Martians!
Josh Smith wrote:
Good one!
Ironically... it came to me when I was looking for a latin word for train specifically to make a joke. Tractor and Train both come from Tractus (something about pulling things). And when I saw Tractus in the word-origin, it just came to me. Tractus Runoverus. :) Personally I prefer the safer version of Tractus Raceus and even Tractus Stopus (even though the latter is very annoying if it is a long species).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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DeepWaters wrote:
They should not base there offer based on the current salary of the guy, but rather on the position or the job itself
True, but they can get a deal with someone making less. Offering someone 50K who is making 25K will save money, and make the employee happier, than offering someone 60K who is making 58K if 60K is their ceiling. And it offers the company some room for raises, if you come in at your ceiling and get unhappy every raise you get minimum on, you will leave. If they bring you in below your ceiling, they can give you better raises and keep you longer. That is exactly how they got me. :-D We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises. I'd much rather be miserble with all that money up front. ;)
Learning is not a spectator sport. - D. Blocher
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
We both were happy since the wage was higher than I made, and my raises were huge for the first few years.
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises. I'd much rather be miserble with all that money up front. ;)
Learning is not a spectator sport. - D. Blocher
Jerry Hammond wrote:
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises.
Actually, it was the biggest raise that got me in trouble. When I got a competing offer, they matched it, 30% raise. But my wife at that time hated me for it, because I then made more than her by more than a few dollars. Perhaps it cost me, but then they took a big risk. I jumped from accounting software to engineering/graphics. That was a risky move, they reduced that risk by giving me a chance.... well, and they had no other qualified applicants for the job. I came with a recommendation from one of their own engineers, so even with the risk I was a safer bet. I was working for 22,400 as an accounting programmer (one man shop), so I got a higher paying job also. It's never as simple as it looks on paper. They didn't regret it, and I have paid them back with good products. They paid me back with good raises. Quid pro quo. If I had stayed in accounting I would not have received as good of raises, nor would I ever receive the salary I do now. So we both benefited from a chance to show what I can do.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
DeepWaters wrote:
I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary , and i almost never tell them.
Fact is, they want to know what they need to pay to get you. They want to pay as little as they can, you want as much as they will pay. An inability to discuss and negotiate this, will mean you'll never make a high wage. If asked what I am making now, I would always inflate the figure slightly, they are not going to ask to see pay slips.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
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DeepWaters wrote:
I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary , and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ?
Cause if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job.
Robert Surtees wrote:
if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job.
And if I'm currently making $35,000 you won't offer me $60,000 either - you'll continue to screw me like my current employer. That's the real reason employers ask this, to see how little they can get away with offering.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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I was looking for a job switch and when i went through a few interviews, they asked me, whats your salary expectations. Normally i try to avoid that by saying as per the market standards etc. But what is the market trend ? If you have 5+ years exp in ASP, C # etc ? Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is? How much a MS guys gets with say 6 years of exp in .net and all ? I find it very rude, when "they" ask what is your current salary :wtf:, and i almost never tell them. What is that to do with the job i am applying for? Why that should be a criterea to judge what the salary i should expect ? Was wondering what you all thinks ? btw TGIF :)
i wou;d say for 120k you need to be very cutting edge and a position of nothing less than technical lead Inflating a salary is something which is normally unverifiable as christian said but its more of an ethical question. i think its better to avoid saying anything till you can and if that just won't do inflate a bit like 10% more of your current salary and then talk about market trend All the best on your job hunt, let us know what happened :-D
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Touch Screen Explorer with Pen Flicks here
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Ask for a 1 million a year, a nudist secretary and a Bugatti Veryon. Bargain down from there.
A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
-H.L. Mencken -
Jerry Hammond wrote:
I got to thinking about this and thought about how much it cost you to have your ego tickled with those big raises.
Actually, it was the biggest raise that got me in trouble. When I got a competing offer, they matched it, 30% raise. But my wife at that time hated me for it, because I then made more than her by more than a few dollars. Perhaps it cost me, but then they took a big risk. I jumped from accounting software to engineering/graphics. That was a risky move, they reduced that risk by giving me a chance.... well, and they had no other qualified applicants for the job. I came with a recommendation from one of their own engineers, so even with the risk I was a safer bet. I was working for 22,400 as an accounting programmer (one man shop), so I got a higher paying job also. It's never as simple as it looks on paper. They didn't regret it, and I have paid them back with good products. They paid me back with good raises. Quid pro quo. If I had stayed in accounting I would not have received as good of raises, nor would I ever receive the salary I do now. So we both benefited from a chance to show what I can do.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Actually, it was the biggest raise that got me in trouble. When I got a competing offer, they matched it, 30% raise. But my wife at that time hated me for it, because I then made more than her by more than a few dollars.
oh that guilt feeling :)
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Touch Screen Explorer with Pen Flicks here
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DeepWaters wrote:
Will you say my expectation is around 120k annually or does it matters which compnay it is?
is this in $US ???? Me thing you are shooting for the moon !!! I think a good advice is to ask for about 12% higher than you are actually making; or at least more than what you would get after a reasonable raise at your current job; so you can after that bargain with them.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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DeepWaters wrote:
is there a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel ?
Yes, Scientific name: Tractus Runoverus. But the common name is a "train."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Do you mean programmers life will always be like that ? but who choose that we programmers only ? Its time to do something about that , Deepwaters had put a great questions these companies are making millions out of our work, we do deserve more than the judgement on "how much we deserve based on how much we are getting"
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Touch Screen Explorer with Pen Flicks here
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I mean, i know its based on a lot of different stuffs, but what do you say is the best and the worst case ?
Well, (for example) I've seen job adverts where in Madrid, Spain a C# Software Developer with 5 years experience can earn €24K ($32K). In London, England a C# Software Developer with 5 years experience can earn £75K ($150K). That is a fairly wide range. You need to focus a bit better on location. Then you can say something like: In Glasgow, Scotland a software developer with 5 years experience can expect to earn £27K ($54K) to £33K ($66K)
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Introduction to AJAX (2nd May), SQL Server 2005 - XML and XML Query Plans, Mock Objects, SQL Server Reporting Services... Never write for other people. Write for yourself, because you have a passion for it. -- Marc Clifton My website
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Do you mean programmers life will always be like that ? but who choose that we programmers only ? Its time to do something about that , Deepwaters had put a great questions these companies are making millions out of our work, we do deserve more than the judgement on "how much we deserve based on how much we are getting"
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Touch Screen Explorer with Pen Flicks here
Quartz. wrote:
Deepwaters had put a great questions these companies are making millions out of our work, we do deserve more than the judgement on "how much we deserve based on how much we are getting"
Yes, we do... it is called raises. As someone else said, they don't ask for a pay stub, so you have the choice to inflate a little on the answer. Generally this becomes your minimum. They know you are not going to take a job for lower pay unless there is extra reasons. We did employ someone at less than his pay elsewhere, because we moved him from back east to be here with his daughter. Life would be much easier if no company took advantage of us, everyone was paid exactly what they were worth to the company and we didn't have to fend for ourselves at any time in our lives. It would be a lot better if we all won the lottery (one at a time that is). But we do have to fend for ourselves, thus the choices of changing careers, and what answer to give in questions of what you make. if I recall, I lied when I said how much I made, I was making 22,400 I told them 24,000 they gave me (not sure if I remember right) about 28,000 because 24,000 was below their pay scale. However, I was feeling that I made much less where I was at, because as an accounting programmer I was working up to 90+ hours for a salaried position. Although my position is salaried now, there is straight-time compensation for hours. So no matter how much I made, I many advantages right off. If work had not given me large raises, I probably would have looked elsewhere eventually.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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i wou;d say for 120k you need to be very cutting edge and a position of nothing less than technical lead Inflating a salary is something which is normally unverifiable as christian said but its more of an ethical question. i think its better to avoid saying anything till you can and if that just won't do inflate a bit like 10% more of your current salary and then talk about market trend All the best on your job hunt, let us know what happened :-D
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Touch Screen Explorer with Pen Flicks here
Quartz. wrote:
Inflating a salary is something which is normally unverifiable as christian said but its more of an ethical question.
In being on the other side of the interview table, I don't consider it an ethical question. We use it as a minimum, so you treat it as your minimum. If you won't make a move for less than 5% more than you currently make, then say your salary is 5% higher. If you won't make a move for less than 20% more because you think you are grossly under paid, then inflate it still. YOU are shouldering the risk in the inflating of the price, it's a very fine line of an answer. You don't want to say too low and risk getting a job offer at less than you will accept, especially if they "might" offer you more -- but, the other side is you don't want to say too high and rule yourself out as a candidate. This is where doing your homework comes in. Not every job is automatically going to look out for you first, them second, in fact very few will. So if you REALLY want to change jobs, find out the salary range for that area, network around, get a feel for the job situation as much as the pay range, know your expected salary, and your own minimum to move jobs.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Robert Surtees wrote:
if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job.
And if I'm currently making $35,000 you won't offer me $60,000 either - you'll continue to screw me like my current employer. That's the real reason employers ask this, to see how little they can get away with offering.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
Robert Surtees wrote: if you're currently making 120,000 I won't waste my time offering you a 60,000 job. And if I'm currently making $35,000 you won't offer me $60,000 either - you'll continue to screw me like my current employer. That's the real reason employers ask this, to see how little they can get away with offering.
Yes, it is done for this reason as well. Of course, by accepting a 60,000 job for 35,000 you are screwing over all the people who would perform the job for 60,000 by letting the employer know the true cost of filling the job. You are in part responsible for driving salaries down.