Why a career in computer programming sucks
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
Computer programming is a low prestige profession. Hardly. I get "oohs" and "aahs" amongst the people I hang out with. Well, I guess, what do you expect from farmers, teachers, and B&B owners. As you get older, your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of staying with the familiar technology for too long. If I get to that point, shoot me. Whatever your position is, as a Computer Science person, you are socially classified as a geek. So? Label-shmabel. I really don't care. One's gotta make a name for oneself where one can! The computer programming industry within the United States is an industry with a shrinking number of jobs (because of outsourcing). Good! Take all that crappy programming jobs overseas! Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. Good! See previous point. Oh, and the "upwardly mobile white American" is history anyways, regardless of career. Computer programmers face the need to move up to management or likely wind up as underemployed fifty-year-olds, only suitable for lower paying IT jobs. While I may feel the need to be an underemployed fifty year old, I don't feel the need to move up to management. Why it's called "moving up to management" is beyond me. Sounds like a major stepping off the cliff to me! Regardless, there's more to life than IT. This trend, in which people without computer programming experience manage computer programming projects, is a result of the low prestige of computer programming. As others said, I really don't care what you think of computer programming. I think it's cool. If you look forward to one day having your own private office, then computer programming sure isn’t the way to go. Dude. I work in my own private house. (Well, ok, mobile home). Beer anytime (if I drank the stuff), take a snooze, go for a bike ride, whatever. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces. Dude. See previous comment. If you can’t get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business school, then public accounting probably provides a better career path than computer programming. Career path is one thing. Being happy with what I do in life is another. They don't have to be exclusive, but I'll tell you som
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Computer programming is a low prestige profession. Hardly. I get "oohs" and "aahs" amongst the people I hang out with. Well, I guess, what do you expect from farmers, teachers, and B&B owners. As you get older, your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of staying with the familiar technology for too long. If I get to that point, shoot me. Whatever your position is, as a Computer Science person, you are socially classified as a geek. So? Label-shmabel. I really don't care. One's gotta make a name for oneself where one can! The computer programming industry within the United States is an industry with a shrinking number of jobs (because of outsourcing). Good! Take all that crappy programming jobs overseas! Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. Good! See previous point. Oh, and the "upwardly mobile white American" is history anyways, regardless of career. Computer programmers face the need to move up to management or likely wind up as underemployed fifty-year-olds, only suitable for lower paying IT jobs. While I may feel the need to be an underemployed fifty year old, I don't feel the need to move up to management. Why it's called "moving up to management" is beyond me. Sounds like a major stepping off the cliff to me! Regardless, there's more to life than IT. This trend, in which people without computer programming experience manage computer programming projects, is a result of the low prestige of computer programming. As others said, I really don't care what you think of computer programming. I think it's cool. If you look forward to one day having your own private office, then computer programming sure isn’t the way to go. Dude. I work in my own private house. (Well, ok, mobile home). Beer anytime (if I drank the stuff), take a snooze, go for a bike ride, whatever. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces. Dude. See previous comment. If you can’t get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business school, then public accounting probably provides a better career path than computer programming. Career path is one thing. Being happy with what I do in life is another. They don't have to be exclusive, but I'll tell you som
Hey Marc, The other article is more detailed. (the 2nd link he posted).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
Well I guess I'd agree if I measured my success in life by what other people thought of my job, or if I had my own private office. But seeing as how I'm not that concerned if strangers find my job "prestigious" (and since I have my own office), I don't agree too much with the writer. And this guy really needs to get over the fact that programmers aren't treated the same as lawyers. Lawyers are probably one of the most despised professions in the United States. He comes off as a whiner who's upset that he isn't applauded as he walks down the street simply for what earns him a paycheck.
I'm with you. I like computer programming. And I'll learn whatever it takes to stay one. (within reason - i mean, I'm not going to learn java, come ON...) I make decent money and haven't had to move to a stupid manager position to get it. Yeah, I've had to go contractor, and I'm not happy about THAT, but oh well. I don't need an office - just a pc. I don't mind all the "folks from out of town". They're fine in my book. I'd sure LIKE to be given the first shot at a job rather than having managers always picking the cheaper guys, but, oh well. That's life. I think the author is just as short sighted as the dorks who dreamed up outsourcing as a way to save money. If these are the worst things a programmer has to deal with, well, it sure beats plenty of OTHER jobs. I didn't see any mention of having to scrape road kill off the freeway or anything like that... ...SteveH
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Hey Marc, The other article is more detailed. (the 2nd link he posted).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
The other article is more detailed. (the 2nd link he posted).
What are you implying? You would like a sentence by sentence response to the longer one? Perhaps a dissertation? I'll get back to you after I get a research grant. ;P Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
That guy sounds like a real jerk.
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
If you play your cards right and are willing to put in the crazy hours of learning and developing, then you can make a boat load as a programmer. I also don’t see where it’s true about all the outsourcing issues. The only people I hear complain about that are 50 year old men that are mad that they don’t program with punch cards anymore. Sr.computer web application developers are estimated to be one of the top 5 fields for pay and job demand within the next 5 years.
PEACE <3
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Computer programming is a low prestige profession. Hardly. I get "oohs" and "aahs" amongst the people I hang out with. Well, I guess, what do you expect from farmers, teachers, and B&B owners. As you get older, your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of staying with the familiar technology for too long. If I get to that point, shoot me. Whatever your position is, as a Computer Science person, you are socially classified as a geek. So? Label-shmabel. I really don't care. One's gotta make a name for oneself where one can! The computer programming industry within the United States is an industry with a shrinking number of jobs (because of outsourcing). Good! Take all that crappy programming jobs overseas! Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. Good! See previous point. Oh, and the "upwardly mobile white American" is history anyways, regardless of career. Computer programmers face the need to move up to management or likely wind up as underemployed fifty-year-olds, only suitable for lower paying IT jobs. While I may feel the need to be an underemployed fifty year old, I don't feel the need to move up to management. Why it's called "moving up to management" is beyond me. Sounds like a major stepping off the cliff to me! Regardless, there's more to life than IT. This trend, in which people without computer programming experience manage computer programming projects, is a result of the low prestige of computer programming. As others said, I really don't care what you think of computer programming. I think it's cool. If you look forward to one day having your own private office, then computer programming sure isn’t the way to go. Dude. I work in my own private house. (Well, ok, mobile home). Beer anytime (if I drank the stuff), take a snooze, go for a bike ride, whatever. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces. Dude. See previous comment. If you can’t get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business school, then public accounting probably provides a better career path than computer programming. Career path is one thing. Being happy with what I do in life is another. They don't have to be exclusive, but I'll tell you som
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The other article is more detailed. (the 2nd link he posted).
What are you implying? You would like a sentence by sentence response to the longer one? Perhaps a dissertation? I'll get back to you after I get a research grant. ;P Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
What are you implying? You would like a sentence by sentence response to the longer one? Perhaps a dissertation? I'll get back to you after I get a research grant.
Heh - sorry. I just wanted to know what you thought about ideas such as :- In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English, and this further lowers the industry’s prestige. Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. I am only accurately describing the fact that the typical white American thinks negatively of a profession that's predominately non-white. I actually understand what the guy is talking about. But I am not sure if all white-Americans feel that way. A few months ago at the MVP summit, I was surprised to see that a large % of Microsoft employees were of Indian origin. There might be a bit of a social-integration issue if white-Americans feel put off by the sight of a large number of brown people working in a company (any company, not just Microsoft).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
From the second link. "Even though I haven’t been working in computer programming all that long, I have already seen most of the technologies that I first began working with become relegated to the garbage pile. Visual Basic 3.0-6.0? Useless knowledge." Says it all! :laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
If you play your cards right and are willing to put in the crazy hours of learning and developing, then you can make a boat load as a programmer. I also don’t see where it’s true about all the outsourcing issues. The only people I hear complain about that are 50 year old men that are mad that they don’t program with punch cards anymore. Sr.computer web application developers are estimated to be one of the top 5 fields for pay and job demand within the next 5 years.
PEACE <3
Bobby T wrote:
they don’t program with punch cards anymore
What ? No punch cards anymore ? What are you using then ? Oh, I must have lived under a rock !
Constantly "Saving the day" should be taken as a sign of organizational dysfunction rather than individual skill - Ryan Roberts[^]
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
"Whatever your position is, as a Computer Science person, you are socially classified as a geek." Wrong. You're classified as a geek when you ARE a geek. Don't blame it on your profession! :)
"Posting a VB.NET question in the C++ forum will end in tears." Chris Maunder
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
Virtual Coder wrote:
The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks
"But in computer programming, the old knowledge becomes completely obsolete and useless." I don't agree with that. Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless. So while it's vital to stay current with the latest technologies, it's more important to keep the bigger picture in focus: How can I apply what I've learned in the past to the present? What principles can I learn from the technology I'm using today that will help me tomorrow? Good ideas, practises, algorithms, etc., are independent of technology. Think of it as a kind of polymorphism. You have an idea you're trying to realize. The technology that implements that idea can vary or change, but the idea itself may remain sound for your entire lifetime.
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Virtual Coder wrote:
The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks
"But in computer programming, the old knowledge becomes completely obsolete and useless." I don't agree with that. Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless. So while it's vital to stay current with the latest technologies, it's more important to keep the bigger picture in focus: How can I apply what I've learned in the past to the present? What principles can I learn from the technology I'm using today that will help me tomorrow? Good ideas, practises, algorithms, etc., are independent of technology. Think of it as a kind of polymorphism. You have an idea you're trying to realize. The technology that implements that idea can vary or change, but the idea itself may remain sound for your entire lifetime.
Leslie Sanford wrote:
I don't agree with that. Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless.
5
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So hard, so cruel, so true: The short version: 10 Things About Computer Programming You May Not Agree With[^] The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks[^]
I read both blogs, and I immediately decided that:
- these blogs weren't talking about me
- the bloggers were probably talking about themselves
So all I can say is :zzz:
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Computer programming is a low prestige profession. Hardly. I get "oohs" and "aahs" amongst the people I hang out with. Well, I guess, what do you expect from farmers, teachers, and B&B owners. As you get older, your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of staying with the familiar technology for too long. If I get to that point, shoot me. Whatever your position is, as a Computer Science person, you are socially classified as a geek. So? Label-shmabel. I really don't care. One's gotta make a name for oneself where one can! The computer programming industry within the United States is an industry with a shrinking number of jobs (because of outsourcing). Good! Take all that crappy programming jobs overseas! Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. Good! See previous point. Oh, and the "upwardly mobile white American" is history anyways, regardless of career. Computer programmers face the need to move up to management or likely wind up as underemployed fifty-year-olds, only suitable for lower paying IT jobs. While I may feel the need to be an underemployed fifty year old, I don't feel the need to move up to management. Why it's called "moving up to management" is beyond me. Sounds like a major stepping off the cliff to me! Regardless, there's more to life than IT. This trend, in which people without computer programming experience manage computer programming projects, is a result of the low prestige of computer programming. As others said, I really don't care what you think of computer programming. I think it's cool. If you look forward to one day having your own private office, then computer programming sure isn’t the way to go. Dude. I work in my own private house. (Well, ok, mobile home). Beer anytime (if I drank the stuff), take a snooze, go for a bike ride, whatever. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces. Dude. See previous comment. If you can’t get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business school, then public accounting probably provides a better career path than computer programming. Career path is one thing. Being happy with what I do in life is another. They don't have to be exclusive, but I'll tell you som
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I read both blogs, and I immediately decided that:
- these blogs weren't talking about me
- the bloggers were probably talking about themselves
So all I can say is :zzz:
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
What are you implying? You would like a sentence by sentence response to the longer one? Perhaps a dissertation? I'll get back to you after I get a research grant.
Heh - sorry. I just wanted to know what you thought about ideas such as :- In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English, and this further lowers the industry’s prestige. Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. I am only accurately describing the fact that the typical white American thinks negatively of a profession that's predominately non-white. I actually understand what the guy is talking about. But I am not sure if all white-Americans feel that way. A few months ago at the MVP summit, I was surprised to see that a large % of Microsoft employees were of Indian origin. There might be a bit of a social-integration issue if white-Americans feel put off by the sight of a large number of brown people working in a company (any company, not just Microsoft).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English
:shrug: See also: phone support, teachers, doctors... The crappy English thing is a real pitty; sad to say, i just hang up now if i hear a clipped accent on a support line - at this point, i've spent too much time and money cleaning up problems caused by a failure to understand the phrase "I DO NOT WANT CHANGES TO MY ACCOUNT". But, my doctor and former professor speak very well; i remain confident that we'll yet assimilate the other professions...
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i hope you are feeling sleepy for people not calling you by the same.
--BarnaKol on abusive words
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Virtual Coder wrote:
The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks
"But in computer programming, the old knowledge becomes completely obsolete and useless." I don't agree with that. Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless. So while it's vital to stay current with the latest technologies, it's more important to keep the bigger picture in focus: How can I apply what I've learned in the past to the present? What principles can I learn from the technology I'm using today that will help me tomorrow? Good ideas, practises, algorithms, etc., are independent of technology. Think of it as a kind of polymorphism. You have an idea you're trying to realize. The technology that implements that idea can vary or change, but the idea itself may remain sound for your entire lifetime.
Leslie Sanford wrote:
Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless.
You know that and I do. But the recruiters I've met during the last months don't see it that way. They just compare your experience with their job requirements. For them 10 years experience in C++ is completely useless when they 'need' a C# or ASP.NET developer.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English
:shrug: See also: phone support, teachers, doctors... The crappy English thing is a real pitty; sad to say, i just hang up now if i hear a clipped accent on a support line - at this point, i've spent too much time and money cleaning up problems caused by a failure to understand the phrase "I DO NOT WANT CHANGES TO MY ACCOUNT". But, my doctor and former professor speak very well; i remain confident that we'll yet assimilate the other professions...
----
i hope you are feeling sleepy for people not calling you by the same.
--BarnaKol on abusive words
Ok, so you confirm the point of view that primarily the low prestige jobs (textile industry, help desk, software development, ...) are outsourced.
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Virtual Coder wrote:
The long version: Why a career in computer programming sucks
"But in computer programming, the old knowledge becomes completely obsolete and useless." I don't agree with that. Technologies come and go (though many tend to stick around longer than we might expect), but the underlying principles of sound software design have not changed. They may mature as we learn more and build upon the past, but rarely do they become completely obsolete and useless. So while it's vital to stay current with the latest technologies, it's more important to keep the bigger picture in focus: How can I apply what I've learned in the past to the present? What principles can I learn from the technology I'm using today that will help me tomorrow? Good ideas, practises, algorithms, etc., are independent of technology. Think of it as a kind of polymorphism. You have an idea you're trying to realize. The technology that implements that idea can vary or change, but the idea itself may remain sound for your entire lifetime.
Leslie Sanford wrote:
Good ideas, practises, algorithms, etc., are independent of technology.
Very true. This is why most CS courses are done without the need of a computer (except for report writing, research, etc). What needs to be done in those (upper-level) courses is more math related. A language-specific compiler is just another tool at that point.
"A good athlete is the result of a good and worthy opponent." - David Crow
"To have a respect for ourselves guides our morals; to have deference for others governs our manners." - Laurence Sterne