Is God the best programmer?
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If you believe that god exists then he should be put to the same scientific scrutiny as everything else and subject to the same observational requirements to prove a theory as fact, or to dismiss it. Either you have scientific proof of gods existence or you don't, but just saying I believe in god because the world is too complex for me to understand is ludicrus and does not prove anything.
evilnoodle wrote:
Do you think that "the way things work" is by chance, that everything just came into existance through evolution.
You are missing the point, evolution is NOT chance, its not random its a natural process resulting in life which is better suited to the changing conditions it lives in.
evilnoodle wrote:
And not only the evolution of life, what about matter and elements and the ways they interact.
Thats called the laws of physics, chemistry and biology, all of which can be proven without the need for a god figure. Unlike creationists, evolutionists would drop the theory (of evolution) in an instant if scientific evidence proved the theory was wrong, creationist just don't listen to scientific evidence because they don't understand/need it for their beliefs. In a creationist's view anything complex MUST have an intelligent designer, which is just wrong.
Jonathan Wilkes Darka [Xanya.net]
Jonathan [Darka] wrote:
just saying I believe in god because the world is too complex for me to understand is ludicrus and does not prove anything.
Exactly my point. 5.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Paddy Boyd wrote:
Green is the only true colour.
but which shade of green ?
Jonathan Wilkes Darka [Xanya.net]
Shade?? You seek to dilute and belittle my beliefs... :mad:
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evilnoodle wrote:
Do you believe in good and evil?
Actually no, typically through evolutionary processes organisms with do both selfish and selfless things because it helps them become a better organism, better as in better suited to survive their environments, not better from the religious point of view. Some people do stupid/bad things just because they want to, just as virtually all religions persecute (evil) those who do not share the same beliefs. The only people who believe in good and evil are religious types as they feel the need to label themselves (good) and unbelievers as bad (evil) to justify their hated of others that do not share their religious views.
evilnoodle wrote:
How can you prove that red is red?
Because it falls within a specific spectrum of light, which can be proven scientifically. -- modified at 6:02 Friday 15th June, 2007
Jonathan Wilkes Darka [Xanya.net]
Jonathan [Darka] wrote:
and unbelievers as bad (evil) to justify their hated of others that do not share their religious views.
That is far from true. In my case anyway. Being an atheist definitely doesn't qualify you as bad or evil.
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
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Jonathan [Darka] wrote:
and unbelievers as bad (evil) to justify their hated of others that do not share their religious views.
That is far from true. In my case anyway. Being an atheist definitely doesn't qualify you as bad or evil.
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
evilnoodle wrote:
That is far from true. In my case anyway.
Glad to hear it.
evilnoodle wrote:
Being an atheist definitely doesn't qualify you as bad or evil.
I agree, just as being religious does not mean you are good or evil, but the problem is that a lot of people believe it is true. I am an athiest (obviously :-D) but would never hurt anyone, except in self defence of course, I don't steal or do anything else illegal. I just do not believe in god and to some that makes me a heratic/infidel who should be killed. This is why I think religion can be very dangerous, not for my own sake but for the sake of humanity. regards,
Jonathan Wilkes Darka [Xanya.net]
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Shade?? You seek to dilute and belittle my beliefs... :mad:
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Chuck Norris is the best programmer.
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May the green bless you and keep you.
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In an old ATL book, the author dedicates the book to God, saying God is the best programmer, because God programs DNA. I think there is a loophole in his logic. God can do anything he likes to his whim, like make water's element to be O2H instead of H2O. For example, He makes every people with gene xyz is an intellectually challenged idiot, similar He can also make every people with gene abc and not xyz is an idiot without any reason. That's not programming! Programming have to follow certain language syntax and logic! Note: God here refers to the creator of the universe, not God in any particular religions, and could be imaginary for all you know.
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And what has this to do with god?
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Nothing at all. But the noodle likes to type, I suspect. :)
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Chuck Norris is the best programmer.
---------------------------- **** JOB23743 Submitted ****
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Dario Solera wrote:
There's no god.
Do you think this little planet we find ourselves on was the only one of 10 billion others to spawn life as complex as us all by it's little old self? No disrespect to you whatsoever, I just find it too big a coincidence that we even exist!
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
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But can He change His character? Or create a rock He can't lift? Or make a woman that a man can understand?
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Dario Solera wrote:
There's no god.
Do you think this little planet we find ourselves on was the only one of 10 billion others to spawn life as complex as us all by it's little old self? No disrespect to you whatsoever, I just find it too big a coincidence that we even exist!
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
evilnoodle wrote:
Do you think this little planet we find ourselves on was the only one of 10 billion others to spawn life as complex as us all by it's little old self?
How can you make this assertion? We haven't even confirmed whether or not there is life elsewhere in our solar system, let alone beyond that. At this point, the evidence appears to be that we are 1 of 8 planets in the universe to sustain life (Pluto, of course, being delegated to dwarf planet.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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"Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer. The presence of intelligent design proves the existence of an intelligent designer." William A. Dembski This makes sense! Do you think that "the way things work" is by chance, that everything just came into existance through evolution. I do believe in evolution, but what's driving it? And not only the evolution of life, what about matter and elements and the ways they interact. Water, for instance is the only element that becomes less dense when in a solid state, and for this reason the polar ice caps of the North Pole stays afloat. The amount of water in the ice caps are enough to flood the entire planet if suddenly one day (as an example) they should melt. Let's assume water didnt have this property, where would we be? Maybe a race of super intelligent fish? Would we be having this very discussion on an underwater internet? Would we ever have evolved so far? You can't answer that btw, because ice floats. -- modified at 3:42 Monday 18th June, 2007
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
evilnoodle wrote:
"Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer. The presence of intelligent design proves the existence of an intelligent designer." William A. Dembski
Aside from the previous excellent observation about this being a logical fallacy, who says an intelligent design exists? I look around and see an amazing universe, but not an intelligently designed one, or one that is even logical, which makes it all the more amazing and beautiful.
evilnoodle wrote:
polar ice caps of the South Pole
As a small FYI, you have your poles reversed. The south pole is a continent, Antartica. It doesn't float.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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evilnoodle wrote:
Do you think this little planet we find ourselves on was the only one of 10 billion others to spawn life as complex as us all by it's little old self?
How can you make this assertion? We haven't even confirmed whether or not there is life elsewhere in our solar system, let alone beyond that. At this point, the evidence appears to be that we are 1 of 8 planets in the universe to sustain life (Pluto, of course, being delegated to dwarf planet.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
How can you make this assertion?
By saying "with 10 billion others" I didn't imply that Earth is the only planet to spawn life. Honestly, I wouldn't know. I was merely using a large number (which may very well be justified) to prove my point. I'm well aware that the possibility of life out there exists and it's not for anyone to decide over the truth of that until we find some concrete evidence. I was however accentuating the complexity and variety of life on earth and the vast amount of factors aligned and crafted in such unlikely precision to support life and intellect in such incredible abundance.
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
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evilnoodle wrote:
"Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer. The presence of intelligent design proves the existence of an intelligent designer." William A. Dembski
Aside from the previous excellent observation about this being a logical fallacy, who says an intelligent design exists? I look around and see an amazing universe, but not an intelligently designed one, or one that is even logical, which makes it all the more amazing and beautiful.
evilnoodle wrote:
polar ice caps of the South Pole
As a small FYI, you have your poles reversed. The south pole is a continent, Antartica. It doesn't float.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
but not an intelligently designed one, or one that is even logical
It works beautifully as you stated, does the design need to be logical? I take it then, that according to you, everything is as it is due to huge coincidence?
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Antartica. It doesn't float.
Right you are!:-O
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
but not an intelligently designed one, or one that is even logical
It works beautifully as you stated, does the design need to be logical? I take it then, that according to you, everything is as it is due to huge coincidence?
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Antartica. It doesn't float.
Right you are!:-O
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
evilnoodle wrote:
everything is as it is due to huge coincidence?
Yes.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
How can you make this assertion?
By saying "with 10 billion others" I didn't imply that Earth is the only planet to spawn life. Honestly, I wouldn't know. I was merely using a large number (which may very well be justified) to prove my point. I'm well aware that the possibility of life out there exists and it's not for anyone to decide over the truth of that until we find some concrete evidence. I was however accentuating the complexity and variety of life on earth and the vast amount of factors aligned and crafted in such unlikely precision to support life and intellect in such incredible abundance.
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
It's still an entirely bogus assertion. We don't know how likely or unlikely it is. It may be that earth contains the only complex life in the entire universe because only here did everything come together. On the other hand, life could exist in great abundance elsewhere in the universe and we are a puny, and not so sophisticated, example of it. One thing that would provide some evidence of God would be if there was life elsewhere and it was very similar to, and highly compatible with, life here. The mere existence of human beings who could reproduce with earthlings would pretty much nail that box shut.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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It's still an entirely bogus assertion. We don't know how likely or unlikely it is. It may be that earth contains the only complex life in the entire universe because only here did everything come together. On the other hand, life could exist in great abundance elsewhere in the universe and we are a puny, and not so sophisticated, example of it. One thing that would provide some evidence of God would be if there was life elsewhere and it was very similar to, and highly compatible with, life here. The mere existence of human beings who could reproduce with earthlings would pretty much nail that box shut.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
One thing that would provide some evidence of God would be if there was life elsewhere and it was very similar to, and highly compatible with, life here.
What does compatibility with life on earth have to do with proving the existence of God? We agree on the fact that earth and the abundance of life on it MAY very well be a unique case in the entire universe. Since this cannot be proven wrong or right this debate is probably not going anywhere fast. Should we however find super-intelligent life tomorrow, or more probable, should super-intelligent life find us and make themselves known, chances are they too will have a point of view on the existence of God. I know this is an assumption on my part, but should that be the case, the fact that they have a view on the existence of God (positive or not) is evidence of some commonomity that may very well be the scientific prove of the existence of God. I do not need this substantiation though, my beliefs are steadfast but I do respect your point of view. Imagine knowing what is outside the universe, if it even has an outside!
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
One thing that would provide some evidence of God would be if there was life elsewhere and it was very similar to, and highly compatible with, life here.
What does compatibility with life on earth have to do with proving the existence of God? We agree on the fact that earth and the abundance of life on it MAY very well be a unique case in the entire universe. Since this cannot be proven wrong or right this debate is probably not going anywhere fast. Should we however find super-intelligent life tomorrow, or more probable, should super-intelligent life find us and make themselves known, chances are they too will have a point of view on the existence of God. I know this is an assumption on my part, but should that be the case, the fact that they have a view on the existence of God (positive or not) is evidence of some commonomity that may very well be the scientific prove of the existence of God. I do not need this substantiation though, my beliefs are steadfast but I do respect your point of view. Imagine knowing what is outside the universe, if it even has an outside!
_______________________________________________________________________ "you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit "Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann http://www.myspace.com/manicevilnoodle
evilnoodle wrote:
What does compatibility with life on earth have to do with proving the existence of God?
Because the odds of having life elsewhere that would have DNA, let alone sufficiently identical to life on this planet to reproduce, would be so unlikely as to provide some evidence of a common creator.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke