Developer's Age !
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I am in my 50's and still write programs but no longer full time. After doing it for 25 years I was made redundant but at the same time had probably had a belly full of programming. Now I am no longer doing it as a profession I do it as a hobby for a few hours a week. It keeps my hand in and keeps the grey matter working.
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Why give up the fun? I left programming becuase of health problems (try programming with migraines - ugh) but then they cleared up, I went back to school to get the latest C# & .NET. Just like back at the begining, all bright shiny new tools except that I know what to do with them this time around. Who wants to sit a desk and supervise a bunch of primadonnas, check their work and never play with the pretty tools? Lets face it the best programmers usually lack people skills needed to manage a team. I can do, I have done it when needed but why do it when there is more fun work around? The only problem I had was persuading employers that a fifty something woman was as good if not better then then some fast talking young bull. So I dyed my hair purple. One thing about being older is you don't swallow the sh*t about work having to be WORK and hard and depressing or that you have to be clawing your way up the carreer ladder doing jobs you hate. Who basically cares what people think about your choices as long as they pay you for the work you do? Lena
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I don't think age matters. I'm a couple of weeks away from being 48 and I'm still a developer. I haven't sold my soul to the company so I can't be management. One thing I've noticed is that the young developers know a wide range of knowlege and have lots of (what they think) are new ideas. They seem to think if they haven't thought of it before, then it's a new idea when some of us have already tried things...in assembly language. The older developers have experiance in the real world. Together, young and older, can make a dynamite team as long as we listen to each other. Have a great day Joe Q
Yes I believe in what you've said, the thing is that most of people lack active listening they just want to impose their ideas to be the best developers :), however what you've said I like so much, I hope most of people thinks the way you think.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I did some consulting for a high-tech placement firm based in London (writing their candidate placement system). They told me that they wouldn't even look at trying to place a developer over 40 years old.
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It's not the age of the developer that matters, it is the enthusiasm level that counts. Question is not how old are you, it is how enthusiastic you are! Problem : as you get older, keeping your enthusiasm up is more challenging. But it brings in mind an old joke: There is an old bull and a young bull in the top paddock. The farmer accidentally leaves the gate open between the bulls and the cows paddock. The young bull sees this and gets very excited. He hops around and says to the old bull 'Let's run down there and have ourselves a cow!'. The old bull finishes munching his grass, looks up and says 'No, lets walk down there and have the lot!' Age and experience will win over youth and exuberance any day :-)
Bruce Chapman iFinity.com.au - Websites and Software Development Plithy remark available in Beta 2
I agree. As you get older, it becomes more difficult to keep up the enthusiasm required for learning new technologies, enduring tough deadlines, dealing with late night debugging sessions and all the other stresses related to development. Generally speaking, development is a young persons job. The more experienced (read older) professionals move towards architecture, project management and team leads. In these roles, some of the stresses of day-to-day development are reduced and a greater emphasis is placed on experience, design and human interaction. I still know a lot of older developers but they are the exception, not the rule.
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I don't think age is a real issue. Once programming is in your blood you will do for your entire life, whether as a career or hobby!
Kareem Shaker wrote:
and if you are somehow old, let's say 35,
Age is just a state of mind! Mike @ 58
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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I did some consulting for a high-tech placement firm based in London (writing their candidate placement system). They told me that they wouldn't even look at trying to place a developer over 40 years old.
Oh, so some companies care about age, and I think this is practical!
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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I don't think age is a real issue. Once programming is in your blood you will do for your entire life, whether as a career or hobby!
Kareem Shaker wrote:
and if you are somehow old, let's say 35,
Age is just a state of mind! Mike @ 58
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
I am 52 and have been programming for just short of 40 years. I started in high school, and that was WAY before high schoolers were doing programming. I have spent most of my life/career on mainframes, gradually moving over to MS (VB, VB.NET, C#, etc.) starting about 4-5 years ago, partly because of learning something new, partly because I was pretty sure there weren't going to be any more jobs in the mainframe arena. I do have a lot of enthusiasm - the reason why I was hired where I am now - not for what I knew or did, but because I was willing to learn and tackle a miriad of projects. The biggest problem IS my age - all the people are hiring are younger than my children; and I KNOW that for a number of openings, it was blatant age discrimination. Also, w/ the youngsters, there seems to be a big thing about terminology - though I had worked w/ SQL, I couldn't remember the formal definition of Inner vs. Outer join - and that was the reason I was given as not being hired. So, stick in there - you're right, it IS in our genes - but expect to be discriminated against, laughed at, and ignored.
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Bruce Yes experience is a valuable tool and yes it is harder to keep enthusiasm level up but when you do some awesome things can be done! I've heard the joke before but still a good one! Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
I'm heading toward 50 and still coding.....The big difference now is that most of the easier coding goes to the less-experienced developers. I end up tackling the tough and extremely complex problems, run more peer code reviews and handle more systems design and architecture. When something doesn't work, I'm the "Go-to" guy....and that's a good thing!
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Oh, so some companies care about age, and I think this is practical!
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Newbie! At least on this forum... You've got to consider the business at the core of the programming as well. I specialize in the IBM Series I (formerly iSeries, formerly i5, formerly AS/400...). I'm 33 years old, didn't even start programming until I was 26. And I am by FAR the youngest person in the RPG group. I'd say average age of the Sr. P/A's (my dubious title) is more like 45, with MANY well over 50. And one of the reasons for that is that you're dealing with a ton of old, not necesarilly nice to look at code - but code that nevertheless runs BILLION dollar businesses, and runs them well. So serious analytical and problem solving skills are very high on skill necessities. Now, RPG is one of those 'relic' languages that folks say is dead/near death, etc. But it's actually very capable at what it is, and that's database programming. And it's used very heavily in something like 1/2 million install bases. It interfaces quite nicely with .Net, which is nice, though most shops use Java to give it web and other capabilities. My plan, of course, is to become very proficient in .Net and other, newer technologies, and keep my current skill set. So when all of the nearing retirement guys I work with actually retire, I will find myself a very valuable resource. Now that is assuming I keep learning, learn well, and keep sharp in this ever changing world of code. Who ever said 'once programming is in your blood...' was so right, I mean, I love coding. And before programming I was a heavy machine gunner in the USMC, then a general contractor. So the change to programming was dramatic to say the least. Ok, so I got a case of the windy post, sorry folks! (LOTS of coffee already this morning ;) )
'Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you are right' - Henry Ford
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
You have a lot to learn about people. Some people are not cut out to be managers. Just because a person gets old does not mean they get wise. Others, simply have not played their career cards right and fell into to the right place at the right time. Some have been managers and have been burned up by the system. It is much easier to be a programmer than to fight the political battles of management. As you grow older your ability to take stress is reduced. Still others just like programming - as others have mentioned. In short, programming is not a career path where the only outcome is management. It is one on many choices. Typically, us older folks get nice cushy jobs in Peoplesoft, Oracle, or application support because we understand the system (both political, reality, and technical) better then our younger upstarts. Think about it as another version of SDLC! Scott
There is a single fine line between smile and smite.
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
as you age you should become a master of your art, the ones that fail to updated their skills fall prey to the young and hungry willing to work extream-long hours writting crappy code for half the pay ;P thinking they are the next best thing...LOL I am willing to bet the next generation, aka the gamer-generation, or is that the chatter-generation are going to get a rude awakening as the seasoned developer of today fight them tooth and nail every inch of the way writting solid code and being more productive...the current generation in control is not the generation of the old-times who wrote cobal or didn't want to upgrade from c to c++! here in the US and Canada the age or retirement seems to be creeping up, and some people just don't want to stop working! i'm almost 40 less 2 years and I know my development craft like the back of my hand and I can code and design in my head and refactor code without too much effort....let's see the young 20 something try to keep up with us old farts...as for me I still feel there is a lot of room to still grow, and I don't feel like 38, I still feel like I am in my 25s ;P I can still pass for 20 something ;P secret is to work on the right projects that will let you show off the skills in demand! work for the right companies and good positions, your resume should speak for you! also develop pet projects to show off you skills and let the body of your work speak for you and not your grey hair if that's what you're worried about??? here in Toronto where I live in the next few years there is going to be a glut of kids coming out of college hungry for work but the demand will not be there, so they will have to flee to the US and complete with international developers, and the old timers!!! as for how you plan your work relative to your age, that's an individual thing and has nothing to do with age!!! it has evrything to do with setting goals and long term plans...something I failed to do....LOL
Yours Truly, The One and Only!
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Hello Shaker: I'm 55 and doing a lot of code and yes I'm watching to myself looking for signs that will tell me is time to retire but for now on I'm enjoying that must of my programs run pretty well from start due to my experience, time is still an advantage to me, by the way, I just won a tennis tournament trophy against players of all ages. Arturo Martinez
What is the grass? A child asked bringing to me a handful of it, How can I answer him? I also do not know what the grass is.
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
It's funny, I got this post via a link that says: Is programming a "young man's game?" It's neither a young person's game nor a man's game! :) My dad is developer at age 60 and has been in development for nearly 40 years. I'm a developer as well (31 and female). In college, my courses were predomiately male, but in my professional experience, I've worked with as many women as men and of every age group. For the most part, the older developers I've worked with are as highly skilled as the younger. I think the reason many developers choose to switch is that it's not easy to keep up on new technologies along with best practices and the increasing demand for IT services in a given business. Some people get overwhelmed and some thrive. I think it's the nature of the person rather than their age or gender. I personally find technology infectious and can't imagine not doing development.
Brenda
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G#d d#mn! Am I already close to written off as a dev? I actually feel like I'm starting to have a feel for what works and what doesn't, especially how to do complex designs, and recognizing when a design gets too complex for maintenance.
Wout
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You have a lot to learn about people. Some people are not cut out to be managers. Just because a person gets old does not mean they get wise. Others, simply have not played their career cards right and fell into to the right place at the right time. Some have been managers and have been burned up by the system. It is much easier to be a programmer than to fight the political battles of management. As you grow older your ability to take stress is reduced. Still others just like programming - as others have mentioned. In short, programming is not a career path where the only outcome is management. It is one on many choices. Typically, us older folks get nice cushy jobs in Peoplesoft, Oracle, or application support because we understand the system (both political, reality, and technical) better then our younger upstarts. Think about it as another version of SDLC! Scott
There is a single fine line between smile and smite.
Thanks, that was helpful, but on the other hand, you will find out that most of corporates promotes old programmers, to be project managers, while they lack the talent of being a manager, and if you check PMBOK ( PMP book of knowledge ), you will find this warning clearly mentioned, because simply speaking this is the biggest mistake most of organization do, however what you spoke about is exclusive to one technology/product, I just speak about programming in general as a career path! Thank you so much for your post.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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It's funny, I got this post via a link that says: Is programming a "young man's game?" It's neither a young person's game nor a man's game! :) My dad is developer at age 60 and has been in development for nearly 40 years. I'm a developer as well (31 and female). In college, my courses were predomiately male, but in my professional experience, I've worked with as many women as men and of every age group. For the most part, the older developers I've worked with are as highly skilled as the younger. I think the reason many developers choose to switch is that it's not easy to keep up on new technologies along with best practices and the increasing demand for IT services in a given business. Some people get overwhelmed and some thrive. I think it's the nature of the person rather than their age or gender. I personally find technology infectious and can't imagine not doing development.
Brenda
Thanks Brenda, It's quite useful what you've posted, also I am just curious to know how could you get this link titled 'young man's game' :), you know what?, the biggest obstacle is how to keep yourself updated, take .NET as an example, 1.x, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and it's growing, what you learn in a year, gets obsolete after another, that's really exhausting, could you tell me how could your father cope with newest releases that keep coming with no break?
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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I wish I could say that age wasn't an issue. I am only 37 and have been in 2 different jobs as a professional developer that I was considered, and even called once, the "OLD GUY". At one miserable position in Charlotte, NC, I was actually older than my team lead, the group Manager, AND even the Sr. Manager. I caught alot of flack because I was older. The average age there was only 24 or so. The manager, who taught himself VB.NET (poorly might I add) was only 26 and an arrogant little pr!ck. Needless to say, I didn't stay there long! Now, please excuse me while I go take my geritol and my early-mid-morning nap. :laugh:
JamminJimE Microsoft Certified Application Developer
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I don't think age is a real issue. Once programming is in your blood you will do for your entire life, whether as a career or hobby!
Kareem Shaker wrote:
and if you are somehow old, let's say 35,
Age is just a state of mind! Mike @ 58
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"