win32...MFC...obsolete?
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Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete?
For most applications, yes. Microsoft would very much like it to, so yes, it will, though as mentioned, it is still holding on much to MS's dismay.
deostroll wrote:
Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
For many things, for a great majority of business software, absolutely it already has. However, there are other things affecting even dotNet in the near future. Will it be obsoleted too? probably, but maybe not. Will managed languages replace all programming on the planet for all applications, in all environments, in all industries, etc., etc., etc..... No. Nor will everything I do affect dotNet and its environs. That is just life. dotNet, and any successor environment will allways have advantagees in certain environments. Other ways will have the same in thiers. The honest truth is that Microsoft is not trying to please all the people all of the time, nor should anyone expect them to. They are in it for the money (don't fool yourself into thinking they are doing it for your well being). But this is not a bad thing, per se. Improvements in workflow that affect the vast majority of programmers, is what they are there to do. Sometimes they make mistakes, feedback sets them straight. Sometimes they do good, feedback encourages them for more. That is life. I can wave some muscle, and have, to influence a small decision or two. But I don't fool myself into thinking I will ever fully change the MS business model. Do what you can, learn what you can, and move on if you have to. That is life. Some things change, and some things stay the same.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete?
For most applications, yes. Microsoft would very much like it to, so yes, it will, though as mentioned, it is still holding on much to MS's dismay.
deostroll wrote:
Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
For many things, for a great majority of business software, absolutely it already has. However, there are other things affecting even dotNet in the near future. Will it be obsoleted too? probably, but maybe not. Will managed languages replace all programming on the planet for all applications, in all environments, in all industries, etc., etc., etc..... No. Nor will everything I do affect dotNet and its environs. That is just life. dotNet, and any successor environment will allways have advantagees in certain environments. Other ways will have the same in thiers. The honest truth is that Microsoft is not trying to please all the people all of the time, nor should anyone expect them to. They are in it for the money (don't fool yourself into thinking they are doing it for your well being). But this is not a bad thing, per se. Improvements in workflow that affect the vast majority of programmers, is what they are there to do. Sometimes they make mistakes, feedback sets them straight. Sometimes they do good, feedback encourages them for more. That is life. I can wave some muscle, and have, to influence a small decision or two. But I don't fool myself into thinking I will ever fully change the MS business model. Do what you can, learn what you can, and move on if you have to. That is life. Some things change, and some things stay the same.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
So, L, what I get from that is javascript IS the way to go, right? Mark
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
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Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
No. The .NET Framework is seen as "just another application" as far as Windows is concerned. It is not a replacement for anything. Heck, even WPF applications live within an HWND.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
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deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
There's this CPian guy here - I forget his name, from Texas. Fellow was dead against .NET and kept saying garbage collection sucks and all that. Last I heard he's been running around in a mad rush trying to get a .NET job. He's even porting some of his C++ code into C#. That says it for you I think. Now if only I could remember who I am talking about. :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
There's this CPian guy here - I forget his name, from Texas. Fellow was dead against .NET and kept saying garbage collection sucks and all that. Last I heard he's been running around in a mad rush trying to get a .NET job. He's even porting some of his C++ code into C#. That says it for you I think. Now if only I could remember who I am talking about. :rolleyes:
Now go tie a kerosine soaked rag around your ankles while there's still someting left of your ass:-> Roswell:-D P.S. Although on the serious side, he's only doing this because on the current job all the work he can get is Classic ASP, meaning it's VBScript. Pretty nasty eh? I mean which evil do you think is worse?
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CA -
So, L, what I get from that is javascript IS the way to go, right? Mark
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
Mark Salsbery wrote:
javascript IS the way to go, right?
nope coffee lisp -- modified at 0:24 Tuesday 31st July, 2007
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
deostroll wrote:
replaced
Rather they would complement the efforts of each other instead of resorting to cheap supplanting. :mad:
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete?
I seem to recall a recent observation that even .NET might be considered obsolete already. I can only say that while I likely will never write an application using direct Win32 APIs again, the fundamental knowledge of how they work is extremely valuable. The same with MFC, as some of the recent discussion threads have brought up. I feel it's all about understanding the layers. Like using the best language for a given job, a well rounded programmer should have a good knowledge of all the API layers and choose the appropriate level for the application. Programming exclusively at the .NET level only limits your potential.
QRZ? de WAØTTN
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People change, but their old posts don't. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
People change, but their old posts don't
Established Trademark and Tangible Cyber-Presence :)
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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XML-based operating systems and apps, with code embedded in CDATA blocks. But hey, it'll compress real well, since it's all ASCII. The biggest problem they're working on though is the code security issues. You thought .NET was bad with tools like reflector, but an XML-based OS can be read without even needing a tool, just pop it into notepad. So, that's a problem right now, but there should be some obfuscators coming along to change the XML tokens and mangle the tags, etc. But it makes sense, when you think about it. The backplane for the OS is going to WCF for the communications, which of course is XML-based both in the way you specify the I/O endpoints and the packets themselves, and then there's WF, the workflow foundation, which will manage the OS's low level thread and resource allocation, completely XML specified, and the shining jewel is WPF with XAML for all the XML-based UI components. Really. Marc
I can see documents like this coming along: ... The whole application has to be encrypted and can only be decrypted by people with a valid license ;P Of course you'd have to buy those rather expensive source licenses, because you have the source of the app after decrypting it. WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson My blog
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deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
There's this CPian guy here - I forget his name, from Texas. Fellow was dead against .NET and kept saying garbage collection sucks and all that. Last I heard he's been running around in a mad rush trying to get a .NET job. He's even porting some of his C++ code into C#. That says it for you I think. Now if only I could remember who I am talking about. :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkI've been saying all along, MFC is well past is sell by date, .net is the only real way to go for modern development, I pity the poor souls still clinging on to there MFC/C++/COM world. I know well spent alot of time with MFC/ATL/COM but it's time to let go and move on, after all it's what ITs about?
Roger Irrelevant "he's completely hatstand"
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What do you think of this guy's opinion? He is Allen Holub from Holub.com http://www.sdtimes.com/fullcolumn/column-20060901-05.html[^] "XML is perhaps the worst programming language ever conceived. I’m not talking about XML as a data-description language, which was its original design. I’m talking about perverting XML for programming applications. It’s inappropriate to use XML as a scripting language (e.g., ANT), a test-description language (e.g., TestNG), an object-relational mapping language (e.g., Hibernate, JDO), a control-flow language (e.g., JSF), and so forth. These sorts of XML “programs” are unreadable, unmaintainable, an order of magnitude larger than necessary, and audaciously inefficient at runtime."
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
And this[^] is why you shouldn't use XML as (say) a programming language...or any language that people have to write (or read, ideally). It's pretty easy to write parsers for simple little languages (which is what most XML-based applications tend to be) that have a direct mapping to the semantic information in the XML, without requiring all the tag-laden boilerplate. ANTLR[^] is a good place to start - and it's purely a coincidence that the guy who wrote the XML article is the guy who develops Antlr...
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And this[^] is why you shouldn't use XML as (say) a programming language...or any language that people have to write (or read, ideally). It's pretty easy to write parsers for simple little languages (which is what most XML-based applications tend to be) that have a direct mapping to the semantic information in the XML, without requiring all the tag-laden boilerplate. ANTLR[^] is a good place to start - and it's purely a coincidence that the guy who wrote the XML article is the guy who develops Antlr...
Excellent article. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And here I thought I was the only guy left who wasn't enthusiastic about using XML for everything under the sun. But what does this say about those geniuses at Microsoft who came up with XAML?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
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deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete?
For most applications, yes. Microsoft would very much like it to, so yes, it will, though as mentioned, it is still holding on much to MS's dismay.
deostroll wrote:
Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
For many things, for a great majority of business software, absolutely it already has. However, there are other things affecting even dotNet in the near future. Will it be obsoleted too? probably, but maybe not. Will managed languages replace all programming on the planet for all applications, in all environments, in all industries, etc., etc., etc..... No. Nor will everything I do affect dotNet and its environs. That is just life. dotNet, and any successor environment will allways have advantagees in certain environments. Other ways will have the same in thiers. The honest truth is that Microsoft is not trying to please all the people all of the time, nor should anyone expect them to. They are in it for the money (don't fool yourself into thinking they are doing it for your well being). But this is not a bad thing, per se. Improvements in workflow that affect the vast majority of programmers, is what they are there to do. Sometimes they make mistakes, feedback sets them straight. Sometimes they do good, feedback encourages them for more. That is life. I can wave some muscle, and have, to influence a small decision or two. But I don't fool myself into thinking I will ever fully change the MS business model. Do what you can, learn what you can, and move on if you have to. That is life. Some things change, and some things stay the same.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
For most applications, yes. Microsoft would very much like it to, so yes, it will, though as mentioned, it is still holding on much to MS's dismay.
Do you believe that MS wishes to move toward an operating system that supports ONLY managed applications? An OS where all user-mode code is managed, or else it doesn't run?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
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What do you think of this guy's opinion? He is Allen Holub from Holub.com http://www.sdtimes.com/fullcolumn/column-20060901-05.html[^] "XML is perhaps the worst programming language ever conceived. I’m not talking about XML as a data-description language, which was its original design. I’m talking about perverting XML for programming applications. It’s inappropriate to use XML as a scripting language (e.g., ANT), a test-description language (e.g., TestNG), an object-relational mapping language (e.g., Hibernate, JDO), a control-flow language (e.g., JSF), and so forth. These sorts of XML “programs” are unreadable, unmaintainable, an order of magnitude larger than necessary, and audaciously inefficient at runtime."
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
What do you think of this guy's opinion? He is Allen Holub from Holub.com http://www.sdtimes.com/fullcolumn/column-20060901-05.html\[^\] "XML is perhaps the worst programming language ever conceived. I’m not talking about XML as a data-description language, which was its original design. I’m talking about perverting XML for programming applications. It’s inappropriate to use XML as a scripting language (e.g., ANT), a test-description language (e.g., TestNG), an object-relational mapping language (e.g., Hibernate, JDO), a control-flow language (e.g., JSF), and so forth. These sorts of XML “programs” are unreadable, unmaintainable, an order of magnitude larger than necessary, and audaciously inefficient at runtime."
I'm curious that he doesn't mention XSLT at all since to me that feels very programmery. You're basically using XML to transform an XML document into another XML document, using for looping and branching if else statements/constructs.
Dominic Pettifer Blog: www.dominicpettifer.co.uk
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deostroll wrote:
Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
There's this CPian guy here - I forget his name, from Texas. Fellow was dead against .NET and kept saying garbage collection sucks and all that. Last I heard he's been running around in a mad rush trying to get a .NET job. He's even porting some of his C++ code into C#. That says it for you I think. Now if only I could remember who I am talking about. :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
Is the win32 platform going obsolete? Is it being replaced by the dotnet framework or something like that?
The way i see it. its all about control. microsoft wants to control what you can do on there OS so yes there more than happy for the standard languages (C, C++, ASM) die out so that there are less people as a threat to there poor coding of the OS. on the other hand .NET is packed full of built in features to make your development time short so that you can get that contact manager or myspace website look alike out of the door. because its RAD to do stuff like that. like with Vista dont touch the Kernel! its badly coded and we dont want you to break anything. cant do that with .Net, its all about empowering more people to code less but make more, so that in the future you wont need to buy software you can have it made for half the price :) unless its from microsoft and is done in c++ with a .net gui. i havent had a c++/mfc project in months, they have been all C#.
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yes. of course.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Oh God.. I hate .NET :sigh: --PerspX
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." - Bill Gates
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The way i see it. its all about control. microsoft wants to control what you can do on there OS so yes there more than happy for the standard languages (C, C++, ASM) die out so that there are less people as a threat to there poor coding of the OS. on the other hand .NET is packed full of built in features to make your development time short so that you can get that contact manager or myspace website look alike out of the door. because its RAD to do stuff like that. like with Vista dont touch the Kernel! its badly coded and we dont want you to break anything. cant do that with .Net, its all about empowering more people to code less but make more, so that in the future you wont need to buy software you can have it made for half the price :) unless its from microsoft and is done in c++ with a .net gui. i havent had a c++/mfc project in months, they have been all C#.
It's all our fault ! :) If We won't use it - it could never be developed :D - Let's get back to asembler and forget about .net :)... about all those forms, ready-to-use controls and components.. ehh. It's hard - isn't it ? I'm also not happy the way it goes - but for now - there is no other option... I think that "The First" software developers had the same feelings when they heard about C language ;)
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What do you think of this guy's opinion? He is Allen Holub from Holub.com http://www.sdtimes.com/fullcolumn/column-20060901-05.html[^] "XML is perhaps the worst programming language ever conceived. I’m not talking about XML as a data-description language, which was its original design. I’m talking about perverting XML for programming applications. It’s inappropriate to use XML as a scripting language (e.g., ANT), a test-description language (e.g., TestNG), an object-relational mapping language (e.g., Hibernate, JDO), a control-flow language (e.g., JSF), and so forth. These sorts of XML “programs” are unreadable, unmaintainable, an order of magnitude larger than necessary, and audaciously inefficient at runtime."
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Allen Holub said : XML is perhaps the worst programming language ever conceived. I’m not talking about XML as a data-description language, which was its original design. I’m talking about perverting XML for programming applications. It’s inappropriate to use XML as a scripting language (e.g., ANT), a test-description language (e.g., TestNG), an object-relational mapping language (e.g., Hibernate, JDO), a control-flow language (e.g., JSF), and so forth. These sorts of XML “programs” are unreadable, unmaintainable, an order of magnitude larger than necessary, and audaciously inefficient at runtime Salut, J'ai vu quelques unes de ses conférences sur C++0x. Ce gars une tête de génie. Juste pour dire que je suis totalement d'accord avec lui. ... Programmer en XML :laugh: c'te blague ! +++
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El Corazon wrote:
For most applications, yes. Microsoft would very much like it to, so yes, it will, though as mentioned, it is still holding on much to MS's dismay.
Do you believe that MS wishes to move toward an operating system that supports ONLY managed applications? An OS where all user-mode code is managed, or else it doesn't run?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Do you believe that MS wishes to move toward an operating system that supports ONLY managed applications? An OS where all user-mode code is managed, or else it doesn't run?
Yes. Microsoft has made it quite clear that this is where they would like to be. They also would rather you not buy any software, only lease an office service, or media service, etc. The operating system would only be the lowest level internet appliance with everything run off their servers, or other company's servers. Getting there is harder than simply wanting to be there. Thus we are where we are.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
