Do you believe in ghosts?
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Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
No I don't.
I am not quite sure based on the incident I described in the old house and other phenomena I have felt over the years. I don't necessarily believe, but I don't disbelieve either. I guess I can be characterized as agnostic.
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
Is your wife Buddhist? and are you?
My wife is very definitely Buddhist (Theravadan), but there are these animist beliefs that are also present. My favorite "holiday" (non Buddhist) is when we gather once a year as a family and each person speaks a testament to a dearly departed ancestor and then with much fanfare we all drink a toast to that person. Needless to say this is a very festive experience after a few drinks. We even offer whiskey, amongst other things (brought out to and left as offerings at the Kathum Ta), to our ancestral spirits.
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
Or if your wife and her family are from that town (and you are not), it may be a local tradition.
It seems to transcend just the local area. After the Tsnaumi there were reports that Asians would not return to the area for many years because of the fear of ghosts.
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
But who knows, there might be actually some truth into it.
That is my feelings, I really don't know.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
My favorite "holiday" (non Buddhist) is when we gather once a year as a family and each person speaks a testament to a dearly departed ancestor and then with much fanfare we all drink a toast to that person.
I've never heard of this one! What's it called? BTW, sounds like you're back in the LOS?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Yes. There is one Holy Ghost and uncountable ghosts. The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead. This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation. Your wife is not doing anything special, it is all over and even here in Japan when many pray to the dead. There is even a special holidays in August here in Japan for this, and you may see them holding pictures of the dead father/mother in such places as World/Olympic games, and I know the Indians will tell you more stories. Evil spirits are real, I am an African and had been in that circle. Normally, they do not have the right to hurt you, unless your cross their way. Your wife's family have sold their rights to them (your spirit houses etc), so just do not get involved with it. We have had a similar situation back home in a university student's room, where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room. The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation.
I too believe in the spirit world, but I have little use for extremely old dogma. Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
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The best thing about Nov. 2? free day at school! :-D
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
free day at school!
And at work :)
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Quanehsti Pah Nation States
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Paul Selormey wrote:
This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation.
I too believe in the spirit world, but I have little use for extremely old dogma. Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
If you consider Vatican as practicing Christianity or having a right to add or remove from Christianity, then may be yes. I do not see any difference between what the Vatican does and what my now dead grandfather (an idol worshipper) was doing. It might interest you to know, I was borned in a so-called Catholic home but have accepted Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and Savior on account of my grandfather's crew. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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No I don't think that there are Ghosts. But it does not mean that I can walk alone at mid night in a grave yard.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
ut it does not mean that I can walk alone at mid night in a grave yard.
I used to do that. While preparing for my college exam we(Me and a friend of mine) used to study late night. And after sometime around 2,3am we used to go outside to smoke. A graveyard was close to the house and we often used to go and sit there because that was a good place to go with super-calm atmosphere. I often used to go alone there as well when my friend wasn't with me. Those were the days....
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. -- Bill Shankly"
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Yes I do. In Islam, we know that just like there are good humans and bad humans, there are good ghosts, and evil ghosts. Humans can use the ghosts to do things for them (aka black magic). I have been told by my father of an incident when my grandmother got ill, and no medicines seemed to work (back in the 60's), my father went to a man who controlled ghosts. He started calling his good ghosts, and they came and started chanting "Assalam-O-Alaikum" when they came in the room. (It was a closed room with only one small window, and the door was closed). He asked his good ghosts to get the evil ghosts' plan and things and the good ghosts brought back some writings on pieces of paper, which they started to throw at the floor. (All the while they made a lot of noise in the room), and the man while sitting on the ground was being lifted from the ground by several inches and then dropping. Then the ghosts asked for money, and my father put some money on the floor, and it disappeared right before his eyes. They asked for more, and he put more down, and it also disappeared. Later, the man told my father to throw the writings in some flowing water. My father came home, and grandmother was walking again like nothing happened.
this is this.
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I believe there are things we cannot yet explain which we attribute to ghosts but that they are not supernatural. The Aurora Borealis, comets, meteors, super-novas etc. were all thought of as supernatural until their natural causes were found. Ghosts are either natural phenomenon or complex products of the mind.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
ut it does not mean that I can walk alone at mid night in a grave yard.
I used to do that. While preparing for my college exam we(Me and a friend of mine) used to study late night. And after sometime around 2,3am we used to go outside to smoke. A graveyard was close to the house and we often used to go and sit there because that was a good place to go with super-calm atmosphere. I often used to go alone there as well when my friend wasn't with me. Those were the days....
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. -- Bill Shankly"
Aamir Butt wrote:
I often used to go alone there as well when my friend wasn't with me.
You didn't mention the time.
Aamir Butt wrote:
Those were the days....
How about now a days, don't you get a chance to visit a graveyard at night?
Best Regards, Mushq Mushtaque Ahmed Nizamani Software Engineer Ultimus Pakistan "English is my second language; please excuse any grammatical or spelling mistakes"
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I believe there are things we cannot yet explain which we attribute to ghosts but that they are not supernatural. The Aurora Borealis, comets, meteors, super-novas etc. were all thought of as supernatural until their natural causes were found. Ghosts are either natural phenomenon or complex products of the mind.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
I believe there are things we cannot yet explain
Now, this is the argument that seems the most logical to me, instead of dismissing these "events" out of hand or the people who experience it...
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Paul Watson wrote:
I believe there are things we cannot yet explain
Now, this is the argument that seems the most logical to me, instead of dismissing these "events" out of hand or the people who experience it...
I must stress though that my whole argument rests on "not supernatural" which means that anybody who tells me they saw a ghost and insists it was supernatural is going to get an out-of-hand-dismissal from me.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Well, with all due respect, I don't understand this logic. When something physically upsetting happens, you're normally able to tell yourself what you think happened within just a few seconds of the event. If the person believed he was pushed from the very instant that it happened, where does the subjectivity of memory come into play here?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
It means that the certainty with which the subject believes it now, doesn't necessary mean they were that certain at the time. They may even not have thought so at the time, but decided when thinking about it later. It's impossible to say. That doesn't make eye witness testimony useless, but the testimony of one witness for a supernatural event, certainly means little without external proof.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I must stress though that my whole argument rests on "not supernatural" which means that anybody who tells me they saw a ghost and insists it was supernatural is going to get an out-of-hand-dismissal from me.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Everything seems supernatural until you find the explanation for it, correct? Starting with solar eclipse, incidents abound in history... Its just that you may not _yet_ know the cause.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation.
I too believe in the spirit world, but I have little use for extremely old dogma. Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
Can you prove this ? Reincarnation directly contracts the words of Jesus, and therefore have never been part of Christianity, nor could they be. Some sect may have believed it, but Jesus sure didn't. He gets dibs on defining Christianity.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
JimmyRopes wrote:
I realized that our belief systems are totally different (I knew that) and that she, and the other folks in the village, have a very different take on the supernatural.
Perception drives our reaction. Our belief, faith, experiences, knowledge, etc drive our perception. So, in your case, IMHO, is not a matter of believing in ghost or no, but it's your wife perception that a ghost can do harm to humna. Cheers, NH
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Everything seems supernatural until you find the explanation for it, correct? Starting with solar eclipse, incidents abound in history... Its just that you may not _yet_ know the cause.
Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Yes. There is one Holy Ghost and uncountable ghosts. The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead. This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation. Your wife is not doing anything special, it is all over and even here in Japan when many pray to the dead. There is even a special holidays in August here in Japan for this, and you may see them holding pictures of the dead father/mother in such places as World/Olympic games, and I know the Indians will tell you more stories. Evil spirits are real, I am an African and had been in that circle. Normally, they do not have the right to hurt you, unless your cross their way. Your wife's family have sold their rights to them (your spirit houses etc), so just do not get involved with it. We have had a similar situation back home in a university student's room, where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room. The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead
Paul Selormey wrote:
where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room
If they have nothing to do with they dead, why did killing someone unleash them to attack people in this room ?
Paul Selormey wrote:
The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits.
Did the spirits appear to them ? In what form ? What did they have to do, just say a prayer, or were the words important ? Why don't a bunch of Christians get together and do this to all spirits, everywhere in the world, say once a week, so this sort of stuff doesn't happen, even if no Christians are in the area. I don't believe any of this, just curious on how you make sense of it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Well, most clairvoyants are women. In the same way that my wife can tell things about people's emotional state that are lost on me, clairvoyants in my book, are sincere, but are just better again than most women at reading subtle clues when talking to people.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts.
:laugh:
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Well, most clairvoyants are women. In the same way that my wife can tell things about people's emotional state that are lost on me, clairvoyants in my book, are sincere, but are just better again than most women at reading subtle clues when talking to people.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Oh absolutely. It is still in the bounds of nature though IMO.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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I believe there are things we cannot yet explain which we attribute to ghosts but that they are not supernatural. The Aurora Borealis, comets, meteors, super-novas etc. were all thought of as supernatural until their natural causes were found. Ghosts are either natural phenomenon or complex products of the mind.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Aurora Borealis
Try saying that to your girl friend quickly 10 times when your drunk!
"I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven."
