Do you believe in ghosts?
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I believe there are things we cannot yet explain which we attribute to ghosts but that they are not supernatural. The Aurora Borealis, comets, meteors, super-novas etc. were all thought of as supernatural until their natural causes were found. Ghosts are either natural phenomenon or complex products of the mind.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
I believe there are things we cannot yet explain
Now, this is the argument that seems the most logical to me, instead of dismissing these "events" out of hand or the people who experience it...
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Paul Watson wrote:
I believe there are things we cannot yet explain
Now, this is the argument that seems the most logical to me, instead of dismissing these "events" out of hand or the people who experience it...
I must stress though that my whole argument rests on "not supernatural" which means that anybody who tells me they saw a ghost and insists it was supernatural is going to get an out-of-hand-dismissal from me.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Well, with all due respect, I don't understand this logic. When something physically upsetting happens, you're normally able to tell yourself what you think happened within just a few seconds of the event. If the person believed he was pushed from the very instant that it happened, where does the subjectivity of memory come into play here?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
It means that the certainty with which the subject believes it now, doesn't necessary mean they were that certain at the time. They may even not have thought so at the time, but decided when thinking about it later. It's impossible to say. That doesn't make eye witness testimony useless, but the testimony of one witness for a supernatural event, certainly means little without external proof.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I must stress though that my whole argument rests on "not supernatural" which means that anybody who tells me they saw a ghost and insists it was supernatural is going to get an out-of-hand-dismissal from me.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Everything seems supernatural until you find the explanation for it, correct? Starting with solar eclipse, incidents abound in history... Its just that you may not _yet_ know the cause.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation.
I too believe in the spirit world, but I have little use for extremely old dogma. Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
Can you prove this ? Reincarnation directly contracts the words of Jesus, and therefore have never been part of Christianity, nor could they be. Some sect may have believed it, but Jesus sure didn't. He gets dibs on defining Christianity.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
JimmyRopes wrote:
I realized that our belief systems are totally different (I knew that) and that she, and the other folks in the village, have a very different take on the supernatural.
Perception drives our reaction. Our belief, faith, experiences, knowledge, etc drive our perception. So, in your case, IMHO, is not a matter of believing in ghost or no, but it's your wife perception that a ghost can do harm to humna. Cheers, NH
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Everything seems supernatural until you find the explanation for it, correct? Starting with solar eclipse, incidents abound in history... Its just that you may not _yet_ know the cause.
Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Yes. There is one Holy Ghost and uncountable ghosts. The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead. This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation. Your wife is not doing anything special, it is all over and even here in Japan when many pray to the dead. There is even a special holidays in August here in Japan for this, and you may see them holding pictures of the dead father/mother in such places as World/Olympic games, and I know the Indians will tell you more stories. Evil spirits are real, I am an African and had been in that circle. Normally, they do not have the right to hurt you, unless your cross their way. Your wife's family have sold their rights to them (your spirit houses etc), so just do not get involved with it. We have had a similar situation back home in a university student's room, where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room. The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead
Paul Selormey wrote:
where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room
If they have nothing to do with they dead, why did killing someone unleash them to attack people in this room ?
Paul Selormey wrote:
The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits.
Did the spirits appear to them ? In what form ? What did they have to do, just say a prayer, or were the words important ? Why don't a bunch of Christians get together and do this to all spirits, everywhere in the world, say once a week, so this sort of stuff doesn't happen, even if no Christians are in the area. I don't believe any of this, just curious on how you make sense of it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts.
:laugh:
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Supernatural to me means literally outside of nature. Not outside of what we understand but outside of what physically exists. For instance I don't really understand how electricity works but I don't think electricity is supernatural. I just think I am too stupid to understand it*. If supernatural meant "Hell, I just don't understand that" then women would be far more supernatural than ghosts. :) * OK, to stop being a facetious idiot I don't think I am too stupid too understand. I just have never sat down and spent the time needed to understand electricity.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Well, most clairvoyants are women. In the same way that my wife can tell things about people's emotional state that are lost on me, clairvoyants in my book, are sincere, but are just better again than most women at reading subtle clues when talking to people.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Well, most clairvoyants are women. In the same way that my wife can tell things about people's emotional state that are lost on me, clairvoyants in my book, are sincere, but are just better again than most women at reading subtle clues when talking to people.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Oh absolutely. It is still in the bounds of nature though IMO.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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I believe there are things we cannot yet explain which we attribute to ghosts but that they are not supernatural. The Aurora Borealis, comets, meteors, super-novas etc. were all thought of as supernatural until their natural causes were found. Ghosts are either natural phenomenon or complex products of the mind.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Aurora Borealis
Try saying that to your girl friend quickly 10 times when your drunk!
"I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven."
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Paul Watson wrote:
Aurora Borealis
Try saying that to your girl friend quickly 10 times when your drunk!
"I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven, I told Bill that if Sandra is going to listen to her headphones while she's filing then I should be able to listen to the radio while I'm collating so I don't see why I should have to turn down the radio because I enjoy listening at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven."
She'd probably make me sleep on the couch for using another woman's name in vain.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Aamir Butt wrote:
I often used to go alone there as well when my friend wasn't with me.
You didn't mention the time.
Aamir Butt wrote:
Those were the days....
How about now a days, don't you get a chance to visit a graveyard at night?
Best Regards, Mushq Mushtaque Ahmed Nizamani Software Engineer Ultimus Pakistan "English is my second language; please excuse any grammatical or spelling mistakes"
Mushq wrote:
You didn't mention the time.
(Adapting from Tamil Movies) 1) Midnight 12 'O' Clock. 2) With a background sound ("Oooooooo....oooo....oooo"). 3) Musical Walking of a female spirit. 4) Suddenly there is a furious wind. One particular grave automatically opens. 5) Amidst gust coming out of it, a tornado like figure strikes out into the atmosphere. :-D
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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Norton Ghost was spooky enough. Does that count? I've terrified several times at the data-loss it has caused...
What I am up to: ReadyToGiveUp(Not!)[^] What friends are up to:SQLServerCentral[^]
code-frog wrote:
Norton Ghost
Evil Spirit. :mad:
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I read some articles about them for example you can search about "queenmery ship"(Im not sure pronunciation is true or no).
WhiteSky
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Paul Selormey wrote:
The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead
Paul Selormey wrote:
where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room
If they have nothing to do with they dead, why did killing someone unleash them to attack people in this room ?
Paul Selormey wrote:
The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits.
Did the spirits appear to them ? In what form ? What did they have to do, just say a prayer, or were the words important ? Why don't a bunch of Christians get together and do this to all spirits, everywhere in the world, say once a week, so this sort of stuff doesn't happen, even if no Christians are in the area. I don't believe any of this, just curious on how you make sense of it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
If they have nothing to do with they dead, why did killing someone unleash them to attack people in this room ?
I think I have provide the reason, in my continuation of the statement.
Christian Graus wrote:
Did the spirits appear to them ? In what form ? What did they have to do, just say a prayer, or were the words important ?
1. No. 2. NA. 3. Command them, a Holy-Spirit filled Christians knows his rights and authority. 4. No (you know how to command someone you have right over to get out of a place). No special words or items like cross, Bibles, books or so-called holy/spiritual goods are needed. They did what the Lord Jesus Christ did, you want references in the Bible? I will be happy to give you.
Christian Graus wrote:
Why don't a bunch of Christians get together and do this to all spirits, everywhere in the world, say once a week, so this sort of stuff doesn't happen, even if no Christians are in the area.
The spirits have their rights to operate and have many human agents who provide them with the channel. An individual has a right to work with evil spirits and be possessed by them, and being a Christian does not grant you any right to expel them out of him/her. He/she will have to cross your path or gave you the right to. You can stop or hinder the flow of such spirits by prayer, that might explain why you see idol worshippers like Hindus, Islam and the like attacking and killing Christians - when it does not work spiritually they take to physical. Even that this is just for a while not permanent, so why will Christian just spent their time going after demons instead of the humans? In short, you deal with evil spirits on case by case basis, just like in the Bible. If they cross your way, you deal with them. We are not sent to go hunting demons.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe any of this, just curious on how you make sense of it.
Cool, I cannot make you believe, but since you have claimed to be a Christian, you might wish to read your Bible to see similar instances - hoping you at least believe the Bible. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Of course yes. Whom do you think wrote Vista?
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I believe in money.:-D
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Christian Graus wrote:
If they have nothing to do with they dead, why did killing someone unleash them to attack people in this room ?
I think I have provide the reason, in my continuation of the statement.
Christian Graus wrote:
Did the spirits appear to them ? In what form ? What did they have to do, just say a prayer, or were the words important ?
1. No. 2. NA. 3. Command them, a Holy-Spirit filled Christians knows his rights and authority. 4. No (you know how to command someone you have right over to get out of a place). No special words or items like cross, Bibles, books or so-called holy/spiritual goods are needed. They did what the Lord Jesus Christ did, you want references in the Bible? I will be happy to give you.
Christian Graus wrote:
Why don't a bunch of Christians get together and do this to all spirits, everywhere in the world, say once a week, so this sort of stuff doesn't happen, even if no Christians are in the area.
The spirits have their rights to operate and have many human agents who provide them with the channel. An individual has a right to work with evil spirits and be possessed by them, and being a Christian does not grant you any right to expel them out of him/her. He/she will have to cross your path or gave you the right to. You can stop or hinder the flow of such spirits by prayer, that might explain why you see idol worshippers like Hindus, Islam and the like attacking and killing Christians - when it does not work spiritually they take to physical. Even that this is just for a while not permanent, so why will Christian just spent their time going after demons instead of the humans? In short, you deal with evil spirits on case by case basis, just like in the Bible. If they cross your way, you deal with them. We are not sent to go hunting demons.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't believe any of this, just curious on how you make sense of it.
Cool, I cannot make you believe, but since you have claimed to be a Christian, you might wish to read your Bible to see similar instances - hoping you at least believe the Bible. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
but since you have claimed to be a Christian, you might wish to read your Bible to see similar instances - hoping you at least believe the Bible.
I do believe the Bible, I regard the beliefs you're espousing to be a little bit of Bible and a lot of comic books. I've been a Christian for a long time, and never met anyone who has had any dealings with 'evil spirits'. It seems logical to me that if many people can be Christians without ever seeing evidence of them, while those who believe in such stuff see them frequently, or even from time to time, then this is evidence that the spirits exist only when they are part of the belief system of those 'encountering' them.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The spirits have their rights to operate and have many human agents who provide them with the channel.
This would be one example of something I don't believe you can show from the Bible.
Paul Selormey wrote:
An individual has a right to work with evil spirits and be possessed by them, and being a Christian does not grant you any right to expel them out of him/her. He/she will have to cross your path or gave you the right to.
I'm at a loss how all of this gels with the idea that someone was murdered, and thus spirits were able to attack people who didn't want anything to do with them, until you attacked them with prayer ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
