Do you believe in ghosts?
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Paul Selormey wrote:
but since you have claimed to be a Christian, you might wish to read your Bible to see similar instances - hoping you at least believe the Bible.
I do believe the Bible, I regard the beliefs you're espousing to be a little bit of Bible and a lot of comic books. I've been a Christian for a long time, and never met anyone who has had any dealings with 'evil spirits'. It seems logical to me that if many people can be Christians without ever seeing evidence of them, while those who believe in such stuff see them frequently, or even from time to time, then this is evidence that the spirits exist only when they are part of the belief system of those 'encountering' them.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The spirits have their rights to operate and have many human agents who provide them with the channel.
This would be one example of something I don't believe you can show from the Bible.
Paul Selormey wrote:
An individual has a right to work with evil spirits and be possessed by them, and being a Christian does not grant you any right to expel them out of him/her. He/she will have to cross your path or gave you the right to.
I'm at a loss how all of this gels with the idea that someone was murdered, and thus spirits were able to attack people who didn't want anything to do with them, until you attacked them with prayer ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I do believe the Bible, I regard the beliefs you're espousing to be a little bit of Bible and a lot of comic books.
I thought you were going to ask for instances in the Bible which you claim to believe. I do not have or read comic books, I wish I have the time anyway.
Christian Graus wrote:
books. I've been a Christian for a long time, and never met anyone who has had any dealings with 'evil spirits'.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: I was living in that deception too, remember as Jesus said not everyone saying Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I was borned into that deception, and you could imagine how long those who gave birth to me are in it, at least twice yours! If you leave in deception, that is the world of the devil, he already has you, and you will not crash with him. He is after those outside his world.
Christian Graus wrote:
It seems logical to me that if many people can be Christians without ever seeing evidence of them, while those who believe in such stuff see them frequently, or even from time to time, then this is evidence that the spirits exist only when they are part of the belief system of those 'encountering' them.
If I had your logical mind, I will not even believe someone calling himself Jesus Christ could be born to a virgin, or died and is risen. Sorry, I did not study that much logic. The Jesus you claim to believe cast out demons from people, or how did your pastor or logical mind interpret that?
Christian Graus wrote:
This would be one example of something I don't believe you can show from the Bible.
In order not to waste time on your believe, please let me know which you are having problem with; the right of the spirits or the existence of human agents?
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm at a loss how all of this gels with the idea that someone was murdered, and thus spirits were able to attack people who didn't want anything to do with them, until you attacked them with prayer ?
A crime was commited and it opened the channel for the devil to come and to preach its lies. It falls in the same master plan, he uses any means available, and to be plain your pastor/minister who is keeping you ignorant of the knowledge of God is in the same business. Best regards, Pau
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts?
Yes. There is one Holy Ghost and uncountable ghosts. The ghosts are evil spirits and have nothing to do with the dead. This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation. Your wife is not doing anything special, it is all over and even here in Japan when many pray to the dead. There is even a special holidays in August here in Japan for this, and you may see them holding pictures of the dead father/mother in such places as World/Olympic games, and I know the Indians will tell you more stories. Evil spirits are real, I am an African and had been in that circle. Normally, they do not have the right to hurt you, unless your cross their way. Your wife's family have sold their rights to them (your spirit houses etc), so just do not get involved with it. We have had a similar situation back home in a university student's room, where a student kill a lady, and dumped the body somewhere. For a long time, the room could not be used by any other student, they leave the next day due to what they experience in the room. The Christians on the campus prayed, and cleared the room of those spirits. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
No intent to sound insulting, but: Your post reminds me in form (and substance) like one of those e-mails that are supposed to be sent to everyone you know. Consider the following: placebo medications are typically 30% effective during drug trials - particularly those for medications that bring relief rather than cure. That is a amazingtestament to the mind's ability to create what it wishes to perceive. If someone wants to believe in ghosts and haunting, then they'll asign appropriate cause to observed (and unobserved) effects. Without fail, the mystical world relies upon anecdotal 'accounts', unwitnessed 'facts', and most importantly neglect of contradictory evidence. Apparently, in the world of mysticism, cherry picking data is always in season.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
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Well, most clairvoyants are women. In the same way that my wife can tell things about people's emotional state that are lost on me, clairvoyants in my book, are sincere, but are just better again than most women at reading subtle clues when talking to people.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
There is a NOVA that proves exactly what you have posted:
Christian Graus wrote:
just better . . . at reading subtle clues when talking to people
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
The human race should really be over this kind of stuff by now! Paranormal events (along with religion) are man-made superstitions that were created to put meaning behind the huge gaps in understanding that existed in the infancy of mankind. I'd like to think we have 'grown up' and realized that science and reason are the only things that have gotten us this far and the only things that will move us forward (and that anything else would only hinder this process). Shawn Lawsure
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Richie308 wrote:
Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
Can you prove this ? Reincarnation directly contracts the words of Jesus, and therefore have never been part of Christianity, nor could they be. Some sect may have believed it, but Jesus sure didn't. He gets dibs on defining Christianity.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Reincarnation directly contracts the words of Jesus, and therefore have never been part of Christianity,
I'm no christian (unlike you) but surely large parts of the bible and therefore christianity pre-date Jesus. Did christianity exist before Jesus? Or did it suddenly come into being at year zero? Btw - I don't believe in ghosts either!
Apathy Rules - I suppose...
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Christian Graus wrote:
Reincarnation directly contracts the words of Jesus, and therefore have never been part of Christianity,
I'm no christian (unlike you) but surely large parts of the bible and therefore christianity pre-date Jesus. Did christianity exist before Jesus? Or did it suddenly come into being at year zero? Btw - I don't believe in ghosts either!
Apathy Rules - I suppose...
Steve_pqr wrote:
Did christianity exist before Jesus?
Um... What was the Jesus guy's name, again? The latest (fact-based; none of your airy-fairy wishful or blinkered thinking) archaeological theories state that the cult that Jesus was involved in disseminating was elevated by his crucifiction (pun intended) to "serious" status, and that Jesus' older brother, who was the organisational brain of the cult, used Jesus' name to push things as far as he could. It's not absolutely certain whether Jesus had already taken on the name "Christus" before his death, or if it was just a bit of PR, on the part of the cult. What the cult was called before "Christian" was added to its name is uncertain, still (the Middle East was then, and still is now, a hive of intermingled and opposing religious cults), because it was most likely a typical (for that region) conglomeration of smaller cults.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
My favorite "holiday" (non Buddhist) is when we gather once a year as a family and each person speaks a testament to a dearly departed ancestor and then with much fanfare we all drink a toast to that person.
I've never heard of this one! What's it called? BTW, sounds like you're back in the LOS?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
Taka Muraoka wrote:
I've never heard of this one! What's it called?
It is Khmer, not Thai. I don't remember the name of this but it is a yearly occurrence. It is also just the immediate family instead of the more usual extended community. Each family does this in their home and brings the offerings to their spirit house or houses. Khmer traditions tend to be animist and always are officiated by a village or family elder and not the monks. There is a Khmer ceremony after every Buddhist event. When the monks leave, the village elder (usually but sometimes another elder) and his wife officiate over a Khmer ceremony. It usually involves offerings (food, tobacco, whiskey, beer, water, etc.) being poured on to the ground if outside, or into a bowl if inside a house, as the elder says things to the spirits in Khmer.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Steve_pqr wrote:
Did christianity exist before Jesus?
Um... What was the Jesus guy's name, again? The latest (fact-based; none of your airy-fairy wishful or blinkered thinking) archaeological theories state that the cult that Jesus was involved in disseminating was elevated by his crucifiction (pun intended) to "serious" status, and that Jesus' older brother, who was the organisational brain of the cult, used Jesus' name to push things as far as he could. It's not absolutely certain whether Jesus had already taken on the name "Christus" before his death, or if it was just a bit of PR, on the part of the cult. What the cult was called before "Christian" was added to its name is uncertain, still (the Middle East was then, and still is now, a hive of intermingled and opposing religious cults), because it was most likely a typical (for that region) conglomeration of smaller cults.
Mark Wallace wrote:
Um... What was the Jesus guy's name, again?
Jesus Christ - Yeah I get it, my point was how much of what we now call christianity existed before the time of Jesus given that the Bible is largely about times before this.
Apathy Rules - I suppose...
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
It is really interesting to hear about other lives and cultures. I think it is amazing to see how differnt cultures are and yet be so similar. I personally dont believe in ghost. I think that when a human being dies, the human is dead, we are recycled back to the earth. Only our code lives on. (j/k) The idea of ghosts come from a concept of animism. Religion that started talking about life after death probably played a big role in the concept as well. If a human tends to believe in life after death, most tend to perceive things differently, their perception maybe be "off" a little bit. ( no offense to anybody) Eventually there will be a time in life when humans will all agree on the same things. I can get really into the topic and go on about why i think the nature of humans and the ideas of religion are bad, but I will not. If i were you, I would sit down and talk with my wife. I would explain to her that you question the idea of ghosts. Tell her you want to prove that ghost exists. Go out there and experiment, see if you can find/catch anything. -BJ
Keep Coding
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I didn't until one day I was sitting on the sofa at a friends house in L.A. that had a view into the bathroom off the hallway to the right. I was just in there earlier and knew the soap dish was all the way back against the counter top backsplash. Out of nowhere the soap dish slid off the counter and broke on the floor as I sat on the sofa. I also had my first and only night terror[^] in that house.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental." - Yogi Berra If you can read thank a teacher, if you can read in English, thank a Marine.
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OK, cool. My wife is also a 'believer'. She just shrieks 'cynical' whenever I try to discuss it with her, and tells me all sorts of implausible tales about her mothers visits to clairvoyants. It's being subjected to this drivel that leaves me with strong opinions on the topic.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
She just shrieks 'cynical' whenever I try to discuss it with her, and tells me all sorts of implausible tales about her mothers visits to clairvoyants. It's being subjected to this drivel that leaves me with strong opinions on the topic.
If you substituted GOD for ghosts, I'd wager much of what has been said in the thread would still apply. The problem withanything that can't be proven in an independantly reproducable format is that you'll always have your believers and non-believers and all believers will call the non-believers cynical. I was in a bible study with my wife once and the gentleman speaking said, "I could speak in tongues and convince everyone here of whatever I want, but that would be abusing the gift that was given to me." I'm sitting there thinking, if you did I might actually believe this pile of hucus pokus your trying to sell. Ghosts are no different, those who "commune" witht eh spirit world when forced to something concrete will say something along the lines of, the spirits won't communicate while a non-believer is present" It's all bunch of bull. I won't say that we're not more than the sum of our parts, that the energy that makes us "alive" dosen't persist after we die, but tell me, if you died would you be sticking around the same old stomping grounds, or would you go places you never could of gone before?
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The human race should really be over this kind of stuff by now! Paranormal events (along with religion) are man-made superstitions that were created to put meaning behind the huge gaps in understanding that existed in the infancy of mankind. I'd like to think we have 'grown up' and realized that science and reason are the only things that have gotten us this far and the only things that will move us forward (and that anything else would only hinder this process). Shawn Lawsure
Can we start with the simple...what is the scientific explanation to why we sleep? By dictionary, science is "The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena." We are simply trying to understand the things around us so that we can take maximum advantage of them. We try to understand how the birds fly and create aeroplanes. Science does not try to explain why the bird flies or why "evolution" decided the birds needed winds and we needed arms. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
This evils spirits tries to validate the concept of a dead becoming a ghost, and it a larger context, the concept of reincarnation.
I too believe in the spirit world, but I have little use for extremely old dogma. Did you know that reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity, until the Vatican arbitrarily chose to eliminate it?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
reincarnation was initially an official part of Christianity
No, it wasn't. There may have been people in the early Roman Catholic Church that believed it (among other things, Constantine himself was a follower of Mithra, a sun worshiper, for example), but nowhere in the Christian or Jewish bibles is reincarnation ever mentioned.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Orthodox Jews are persecuting Messianic Jews in Israel (video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I don't believe in ghosts. I twice had an experience while at my cousins' country house, however, that I can't positively explain: Myself, my brother, and my cousin were out on their big trampoline for the night out in Tennessee, USA. I was laying down in my sleeping bag and looking down towards an open valley when something appeared at the one end of the trampoline. It looked transparent and white -- a stereotypical "ghost" if you will -- and moved pretty fast (about the speed of someone riding their bike, maybe 10 MPH) from left to right and finally disappeared in the distance. Scared the hell out of me. I've no idea what it was. I had another experience at that same house some years later. I slept at their house -- this time indoors! :). I woke up at about 4:30 in the morning to find myself sitting in a chair in a different room, with all the furniture moved, with the chair I was in sitting at the doorway next to the stairs. My best natural explanation is the former was some kind of light, maybe a headlight or something, and my mind somehow put it together as a stereotypical ghost. The latter I could explain by sleepwalking. It would be the only time I've ever slept-walked, however, and to move all the furniture would've been amazing feat for a sleep walk, I think. Either way, I'm not certain either were supernatural.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Orthodox Jews are persecuting Messianic Jews in Israel (video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Can we start with the simple...what is the scientific explanation to why we sleep? By dictionary, science is "The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena." We are simply trying to understand the things around us so that we can take maximum advantage of them. We try to understand how the birds fly and create aeroplanes. Science does not try to explain why the bird flies or why "evolution" decided the birds needed winds and we needed arms. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
..and a 5 to ya!
"Half this game is ninety percent mental." - Yogi Berra If you can read thank a teacher, if you can read in English, thank a Marine.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
but since you have claimed to be a Christian, you might wish to read your Bible to see similar instances - hoping you at least believe the Bible.
I do believe the Bible, I regard the beliefs you're espousing to be a little bit of Bible and a lot of comic books. I've been a Christian for a long time, and never met anyone who has had any dealings with 'evil spirits'. It seems logical to me that if many people can be Christians without ever seeing evidence of them, while those who believe in such stuff see them frequently, or even from time to time, then this is evidence that the spirits exist only when they are part of the belief system of those 'encountering' them.
Paul Selormey wrote:
The spirits have their rights to operate and have many human agents who provide them with the channel.
This would be one example of something I don't believe you can show from the Bible.
Paul Selormey wrote:
An individual has a right to work with evil spirits and be possessed by them, and being a Christian does not grant you any right to expel them out of him/her. He/she will have to cross your path or gave you the right to.
I'm at a loss how all of this gels with the idea that someone was murdered, and thus spirits were able to attack people who didn't want anything to do with them, until you attacked them with prayer ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
The notion of evil spirits in the bible and demonic spirits is a bit of grape-vine theology for most accounts. For example you can read that a "spirit of anger" came upon someone. Is this truly a demonic spirit or is this a person momentarily losing self-control and giving themselves over to an act of anger? There are most certainly demons in the bible. In (Matthew I think) Christs cast a demon out of a man and into a heard of pigs... 3 brothers go about claiming they can cast out spirits but they run into one who claims that he knows "Jesus" and that he knows "Paul" but them he has never heard of and he then beats them severely and rips off all their clothes. You can certainly find many references to demons in the bible. Not a single reference to ghosts or hauntings. I do believe that people can get themselves into trouble if they go seeking demonic influence or satanic cults. I won't speak to it in great detail as I have no desire to know or to repeat what they may find. I'm not sure at all myself but from stories told by those who have experienced it in the first person and those who have witnessed it... I have no desire to take any part in any of it. The reason you don't find more Christians going around and "casting out" demons is that it's a seriously risky business and you better know what you are doing and you had better have been gifted to do it and it *better* be for the glory of He that dwells in you and not your own. I know a few men that I consider tremendous who have casually told stories where they have entered houses or other places under demonic occupation and called them to leave in the "authority of Christ" and then given Christ the glory for the success. This I do believe. I can tell these men are sincere and that they did see and experience what they claim. They also only tell those stories when it's appropriate, they don't seek monetary gain or to attract followers and they only retell the account to bring glory to Christ not themselves. There is zero mention of ghosts in the bible but of demons and demonic forces their are references in many places. Christians do have authority and power over demons and demonic forces and that power comes through a faith and belief of Jesus Christ who then bestows His spirit upon the believer and empowers them to overcome the demonic forces in this life. In saying this I do not believe that every Christian is called to expel demons. I believe some are gifted to that just as some are gifted to counsel in marriage and other issues. I do believe that church
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Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
free day at school!
And at work :)
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Quanehsti Pah Nation States
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
And at work
For everyone else, yes! But isn't it like Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve (or May 5th) that it is not an official holiday? AFAIK, some business usually give half of the day free only. In anyway, I can have a free day any normal day, or have to work any holiday, depending on the amount of work I have :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
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I, personally, don’t know if ghosts exist or not, despite some anecdotal evidence that is purely conjecture from a residence where there was a feeling of an “other wordily” presence. This was a very old house (mud and stone construction) and the presence was felt by other inhabitants of the house as well. I mentioned it and there was immediate recognition that it was a female presence without my mentioning that. Strange! Anyway, the incident I am thinking of involves my wife, her father and a villager who in despair decided to end it all. He was an affable fellow, at least that was his outward appearance, but things got to be too much and he hanged himself. Unfortunately, my wife’s cousin came across his dead body hanging from an electrical pylon when she went out to feed the ducks one morning. Funeral rites were held and his body was cremated, in the Buddhist tradition. As a bit of background, the village is predominately Khmer, and some traditions predate Buddhism, and can best be described as animist. My house is on the edge of the village and on a typical day there are more, many more, buffalo and cows pass my house than cars or motorcycles. All of the animal traffic and most of the mechanized traffic occurs during daylight hours as the herds are moved from the barn to the grazing areas during the day and back in the evening. After this fellow decided to end it all there are no cars or motorcycles that pass after dark. Not that there were many before, but now there are none! When asked my wife she told me that people don’t come this way because of the ghosts! In fact her father doesn’t come over to watch TV in the dark any more because of the ghosts. My wife now asks me to accompany her when she goes out to the “Hong Nam” (toilet/bath house) to take a “shower” (bird bath) after dark. I asked why she wanted me to accompany her and her response was “aren’t you afraid of the ghosts?” [specifically this tortured soul that recently hung himself]”. She was appalled when I answered that “no I wasn’t” and that if he wanted to visit and have a drink I would be happy to drink with him. By way of background, we have 2 spirit houses (Katum Ta (Grandfather's Hut); in Khmer) on the property; one for our ancestors and one for any wandering, or traveling, spirits who need a place to stay. I told her that we -- me and this fellow -- were friends in life (we were cordial and did share many drinks in friendship when he was alive) so I didn’t fear him in the afterlife. My wife freaked
I've lived and worked in 100+ year old houses and buildings for a good part of my life. I even have a picture of my haunted laptop with it surrounded by the orbs of dead geeks :). I've yet to see any real evidence of ghosts. Therefore, I don't believe they actually exist. Of course, what any of us believe makes no difference to what someone else believes.. that's the very definition of belief.
patbob
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Steve_pqr wrote:
Did christianity exist before Jesus?
Um... What was the Jesus guy's name, again? The latest (fact-based; none of your airy-fairy wishful or blinkered thinking) archaeological theories state that the cult that Jesus was involved in disseminating was elevated by his crucifiction (pun intended) to "serious" status, and that Jesus' older brother, who was the organisational brain of the cult, used Jesus' name to push things as far as he could. It's not absolutely certain whether Jesus had already taken on the name "Christus" before his death, or if it was just a bit of PR, on the part of the cult. What the cult was called before "Christian" was added to its name is uncertain, still (the Middle East was then, and still is now, a hive of intermingled and opposing religious cults), because it was most likely a typical (for that region) conglomeration of smaller cults.
Anyone who didn't yet see "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" really ought to about now. It has a lot more truth to it than the believers would care to face.
"Pass Me the Holy Hand Grenade."
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The notion of evil spirits in the bible and demonic spirits is a bit of grape-vine theology for most accounts. For example you can read that a "spirit of anger" came upon someone. Is this truly a demonic spirit or is this a person momentarily losing self-control and giving themselves over to an act of anger? There are most certainly demons in the bible. In (Matthew I think) Christs cast a demon out of a man and into a heard of pigs... 3 brothers go about claiming they can cast out spirits but they run into one who claims that he knows "Jesus" and that he knows "Paul" but them he has never heard of and he then beats them severely and rips off all their clothes. You can certainly find many references to demons in the bible. Not a single reference to ghosts or hauntings. I do believe that people can get themselves into trouble if they go seeking demonic influence or satanic cults. I won't speak to it in great detail as I have no desire to know or to repeat what they may find. I'm not sure at all myself but from stories told by those who have experienced it in the first person and those who have witnessed it... I have no desire to take any part in any of it. The reason you don't find more Christians going around and "casting out" demons is that it's a seriously risky business and you better know what you are doing and you had better have been gifted to do it and it *better* be for the glory of He that dwells in you and not your own. I know a few men that I consider tremendous who have casually told stories where they have entered houses or other places under demonic occupation and called them to leave in the "authority of Christ" and then given Christ the glory for the success. This I do believe. I can tell these men are sincere and that they did see and experience what they claim. They also only tell those stories when it's appropriate, they don't seek monetary gain or to attract followers and they only retell the account to bring glory to Christ not themselves. There is zero mention of ghosts in the bible but of demons and demonic forces their are references in many places. Christians do have authority and power over demons and demonic forces and that power comes through a faith and belief of Jesus Christ who then bestows His spirit upon the believer and empowers them to overcome the demonic forces in this life. In saying this I do not believe that every Christian is called to expel demons. I believe some are gifted to that just as some are gifted to counsel in marriage and other issues. I do believe that church
code-frog wrote:
Christians do have authority and power over demons and demonic forces and that power comes through a faith and belief of Jesus Christ
What arrogance! I would have held my tongue, but let me set you straight: christianity created it's phalanx of demons, hell, and so forth for the sole purpose of scaring the ignorant into accepting their polytheistic faith and keeping the believers under the thumb of the church hierarchy. Then, of course, there are those they coopted, with their usual charitable hearts, by offering the starving food if they convert (e.g., 'Rice Christians'). And when it comes to terrorism? Al Qiada (&etc.) has a long long way to go before it can catch up with christianities idea of the addressing the non-believer 'question'. You are of the faith that teaches that if one isn't baptized before they die, they go to eternal torture: innocent baby's, and all, it seems. The religion of love! Apologies who really understand their faith (a la, the prophet Milachai), where it is noted that diety accepts prayer as though it were to Him, even from idol worshipers, for it is the intent of the worship that counts. -- modified at 13:29 Wednesday 1st August, 2007
