The Death of Democracy [UK]
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You're a beardy hand wringing moralising namby pamby socialist human rights waving hippie.
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Anyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least The interview with Duane R. Clarridge was particularly telling I thought and explained alot about US intervention in world affairs, perversly I felt like shouting "scaredy cat scaredy cat...." at the guy. They don't make journo's like John Pilger anymore thats for sure.
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"
Watched that myself, and aside from being completely STUNNED that ITV would broadcast something so high-brow (OK - they DID follow it with a few hours of quiz call, but can't have everything!), I must say, I personally thought it was superb. Inb the interviews with Chavez, he came across an awful lot better than I was expecting him to - he does indeed appear to be everything that he says he is - though the assumption of powers recently does remind me of "absolute power corrupts absolutely"..... The telling point for me was the "other side" of the story about the failure to renew licenses for TV / Radio stations. I have to admit, that when I first read about it, my inital reaction was "uh-oh....here we go....", but on further examination, a quote from Pilger himself sums it up for me...."If the BBC were to openly support a coup, then they would expect consequences"..... School of the Americas? Sickening....truly sickening. Have to say though, although I was surprised at the extent, I wasn't particularly suprised at what he was reporting...and the CIA officer who was interviewed loosing his temper and saying that Amnesty International was "at the very centre" of a global anti-american propaganda movement kinda summed up the problem with an unchecked superpower with this quote... "We're going to do WHATEVER we want to secure our National Security, and you can either like it or lump it".... The two quotes reminded me of a few CP members too ;)
"Knock me down, I'll get straight back up again, I'll come back stronger than a powered up pacman" (Lilly Allen / Kaiser Chiefs)
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As usual you'll notice that people simply attack Mr Pilger rather than actually arguing with anything that he says.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
Of course - the'd have to THINK otherwise :)
"Knock me down, I'll get straight back up again, I'll come back stronger than a powered up pacman" (Lilly Allen / Kaiser Chiefs)
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Anyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least The interview with Duane R. Clarridge was particularly telling I thought and explained alot about US intervention in world affairs, perversly I felt like shouting "scaredy cat scaredy cat...." at the guy. They don't make journo's like John Pilger anymore thats for sure.
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"
Phil HardingAnyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least
Just remember that most Americans are too busy working / chasing the dream to even notice. The two party system has America divided on social issues like gay rights, immigration, abortion etc... But it is the money behind the scenes dictating policy. Most of us Americans are tolerant, honest, hard working people who like football and beer. It is the people with boat loads of money that are destroying everything.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Phil HardingAnyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least
Just remember that most Americans are too busy working / chasing the dream to even notice. The two party system has America divided on social issues like gay rights, immigration, abortion etc... But it is the money behind the scenes dictating policy. Most of us Americans are tolerant, honest, hard working people who like football and beer. It is the people with boat loads of money that are destroying everything.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Anyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least The interview with Duane R. Clarridge was particularly telling I thought and explained alot about US intervention in world affairs, perversly I felt like shouting "scaredy cat scaredy cat...." at the guy. They don't make journo's like John Pilger anymore thats for sure.
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"
Very well timed - and in light of his hero Chavez' recent constitutional changes to make himself president for life you could almost say ironic. It's amazing how many times lefties will fall for the same populist hero of the people line.I think it took Chomsky until the late 80's to admit that Pol Pot probably wasn't such a righteous dude. Venezuela is a horribly oligarchical society, but the last thing it needed was to replace that with the tyranny of the party.
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Pilger is hard-left, anti-everything journo so that's what you'll get. If I'd have done it I'd have had you screaming at your local politician to get us admitted as the 51st state. Anyway, democracy never really had a life so what's the problem?
In this modern climate I don't think that using terms left and right is really relevant anymore. The extremes these days seem to be those who believe in the freedom of the individual and those who would subvert the desire for those freedoms in the name of emperialist policies and the mechanism of state. The two camps might be defined as those who read 1984 and were terrified and those who read it and thought it was a manual for government. Reducing arguments to X is hard left or Y is a Girly Man is exactly the technique of the fear brigade. It doesn't really mean anything and is therefore very hard to disprove, especially in the 10-15 secs that the clip goes out on CNN or BBC24. Just because democracy doesn't or didn't have a life does not mean that we shouldn't aim to rid the world of oppression in all its forms which i suppose is a logical opposite of democracy. It strikes me that spreading democracy is a noble goal; forcing it upon people, however, is totally contrary to democracies own principles. Russell
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In this modern climate I don't think that using terms left and right is really relevant anymore. The extremes these days seem to be those who believe in the freedom of the individual and those who would subvert the desire for those freedoms in the name of emperialist policies and the mechanism of state. The two camps might be defined as those who read 1984 and were terrified and those who read it and thought it was a manual for government. Reducing arguments to X is hard left or Y is a Girly Man is exactly the technique of the fear brigade. It doesn't really mean anything and is therefore very hard to disprove, especially in the 10-15 secs that the clip goes out on CNN or BBC24. Just because democracy doesn't or didn't have a life does not mean that we shouldn't aim to rid the world of oppression in all its forms which i suppose is a logical opposite of democracy. It strikes me that spreading democracy is a noble goal; forcing it upon people, however, is totally contrary to democracies own principles. Russell
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Phil HardingAnyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least
Just remember that most Americans are too busy working / chasing the dream to even notice. The two party system has America divided on social issues like gay rights, immigration, abortion etc... But it is the money behind the scenes dictating policy. Most of us Americans are tolerant, honest, hard working people who like football and beer. It is the people with boat loads of money that are destroying everything.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Most of us Americans are tolerant, honest, hard working people who like football and beer. It is the people with boat loads of money that are destroying everything.
Yeah I know, it's what I was trying to say in a somewhat cack-handed way :doh:
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"
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Anyone watch this film by John Pilger last night, I found it rather hard watching it not to feel anti american, well anti american policy at least The interview with Duane R. Clarridge was particularly telling I thought and explained alot about US intervention in world affairs, perversly I felt like shouting "scaredy cat scaredy cat...." at the guy. They don't make journo's like John Pilger anymore thats for sure.
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"
It is hard to take Pilger seriously. The guy is just your average left-wing nutbar. Here is one of his quotes: "During the Cold War, a group of Russian journalists toured the United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by their hosts for their impressions. ‘I have to tell you,’ said their spokesman, ‘that we were astonished to find after reading all the newspapers and watching TV, that all the opinions on all the vital issues were by and large, the same. To get that result in our country, we imprison people, we tear out their fingernails. Here, you don’t have that. What’s the secret? How do you do it?" That is totally idiotic. The U.S. media could hardly be accused of walking in lock step. I am sure that the muted commentary of U.S. mainstream journalism reflects the muted feelings of the majority of the U.S population. Fringe players on the left and right have fringe audiences. Big whoop! As for Chavez and his sympathizers, the problem is due process. Chavez doesn't understand the concept and apparently his sympathizers don't either. If a TV station is **allegedly** fomenting for a coup then you deal with the issue within the rule of law. Otherwise it looks like you are a dictator ruthlessly trying to suppress government criticism, which of course is exactly what Hugo "President for Life" Chavez was doing. And it kind of Orwellian for a Chavez sympathizer to be lamenting the death of democracy in a country where the media have spent the last 4 years ruthlessly savaging the government, while at the same time Chavez--acting as prosecutor, judge, and jury--is shutting down dissenting media voices. Chadlling
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As usual you'll notice that people simply attack Mr Pilger rather than actually arguing with anything that he says.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
If you'll notice, the OP name-dropped instead of (say) quoting or even linking to anything Pilger said. So to avoid falling into the category you've so smugly grouped everyone else, i have essentially three potential replies: say something about Pilger's views from memory, go read up on Pilger's views and then comment on them, or just assume that it was yet another propaganda piece and move on to the next thread. Guess which one i'm going with...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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If you'll notice, the OP name-dropped instead of (say) quoting or even linking to anything Pilger said. So to avoid falling into the category you've so smugly grouped everyone else, i have essentially three potential replies: say something about Pilger's views from memory, go read up on Pilger's views and then comment on them, or just assume that it was yet another propaganda piece and move on to the next thread. Guess which one i'm going with...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
Well, yeah, you've got a point, but I didn't particularly want to foment a Soapbox thread by discussing anything in particular that John Pilger said, just the general material of the program. IMHO John Pilger is as unbiased and balanced as journo's come these days, but yes he did have a story to tell, like the story he was telling "it it looks like s**t and smells like s**t, odds are is it s**t" If I must point to anything in the program, it was the interview with Duane Clarridge, perhaps he is deranged, or perhaps he was bluffing (to aid the story JP was trying to tell?), either way, the actions of US foriegn policy (covert or otherwise) over the years points pretty much to what he said.
- "I'm not lying, I'm just writing fiction with my mouth"