What's with ASP.Net anyway?
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
The real WTF - oops, wrong site - is that anybody thought that HTML + CSS + JavaScript would ever make for a pleasent, productive development experience.
"It was the day before today.... I remember it like it was yesterday." -Moleman
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
I couldn't disagree more. Server-side code is 10X more manageable then JavaScript. And ASP.Net adds so much functionality. It is nice that you can use C# for web and windows and share a lot of your code base.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
I could simply not disagree any more. ASP.NET has to be the most productive way of writing server side applications. I don't mean the easiest because a bad ASP.NET programmer can do things not fit for sane eyes, but it is without a doubt the most efficient web-platform once you have learned it IMO. And with ASP.NET AJAX you can use JavaScript for controls and extenders. And I can't really see why I would use JS for anything else.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
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Brady Kelly wrote:
We have a successful product using ASP.NET where a lot of functionality is Javascript and DOM based.
Same here and it's been a good money maker for me. But I agree with the OP with the in general. However, I think it is Webforms that is the problem.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
Holy crap, how do you get 1 voted for that? I'm with you 100%. I've always thought that hiding the slow network connection between client and server behind events was a bad design, just like sharing objects over the network ala DCOM and CORBA. To make things even better, I'm dealing with a bunch of custom controls where the authors each had a different idea of which event to attach control initialization to, so I spend way too much time writing code to hack my way around that making sure each of the controls can work together. Heck, a couple of the controls even call Page.DataBind for different events, so everything is getting databound multiple times each time the page is loaded, including postbacks unless you enable all that ViewState crap. Who ever thought it was a good idea to encode all the data for the page with a base64 string in the middle of the page? :| But they made an improvement in the viewState 2.0 serialization by using a dictionary lookup for the type of every object, instead of using the full name of every single type when they serialized the type. :doh: All this over the internet. And why do they do this? Only so that they can rebuild the exact same control hierarchy in the postback page because their design requires all the controls from the first page to be recreated just to process data even if you aren't going to display the controls at all.
This blanket smells like ham
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
I'll go out on a limb and agree with you in spirit. But, it's webforms that I think are crappy rather than the whole ASP.net framework. Luckly, you can build very nice sites without the webforms garbage.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Yea, I know, it's been, what, seven years since ASP.Net came out? But I still hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking. My guess is that someone at microsoft said in a design meeting: "Wouldn't it be wierd if you could build ASP apps just like Windows Forms? You know with a wysiwyg designer all of those event thingies and stuff. And it would be really cool if I never had to write JavaScript again." And so it went that some team of twenty guys, who never once wrote a web application, set off to make ASP [.Net] just like Windows Forms. I hate it -- I hate it -- I hate it. I want my JavaScript and DOM back! :):-D:laugh:;);P:^):(:sigh::doh::((:zzz::->:-O:rolleyes::omg::wtf::mad::confused::~ :| X| :suss::cool::rose: The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
Thanks. KHadden
Ken Hadden wrote:
The above is the range of emotions I go through in a typical day of writing ASP.Net web apps.
You missed this, :eek: the feeling you'd have after you compile the project every time.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
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I'll go out on a limb and agree with you in spirit. But, it's webforms that I think are crappy rather than the whole ASP.net framework. Luckly, you can build very nice sites without the webforms garbage.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Ah! So there is light at the end of the tunnel? Please elaborate. I mean, it sounds like, I should be flaming Web Forms. Yeah that's what I hate. Web Forms? WTF were they thinking? I think Andy really made a good point too. BTW, guys, don't get me wrong. I no noob. I've been building web sites (mostly Intranet application) since CGI was written in either C/C++ or Perl. And I have an opinion. I hate everything about postback. And I hate the the stupid "Server Controls". Aren't they merely rendering objects. Seriously? Writing HTML with CSS and some nice JavaScript was elegant. ASP elegant. ASP.Net yuck. Maybe if I had started with ASP.Net I wouldn't be longing for the good-old-days.
Thanks. KHadden
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Ah! So there is light at the end of the tunnel? Please elaborate. I mean, it sounds like, I should be flaming Web Forms. Yeah that's what I hate. Web Forms? WTF were they thinking? I think Andy really made a good point too. BTW, guys, don't get me wrong. I no noob. I've been building web sites (mostly Intranet application) since CGI was written in either C/C++ or Perl. And I have an opinion. I hate everything about postback. And I hate the the stupid "Server Controls". Aren't they merely rendering objects. Seriously? Writing HTML with CSS and some nice JavaScript was elegant. ASP elegant. ASP.Net yuck. Maybe if I had started with ASP.Net I wouldn't be longing for the good-old-days.
Thanks. KHadden
I, like you, have worked web technologies for more than a decade. Although, I left the CGI world to PHP and then standard ASP. When ASP.NET came out, I was amazed at all they managed to do and the power I then had on the server side. Of course, for client stuff I was still stuck with JavaScript which I personally could care less if I ever write one line of code with it again, but stuck with it for now (until Silverlight is in just about every machine and I will be able to through JS away permanently). Anyway, I despise HTML and CSS! Too many standards and browser developers failing to implement them. I have wasted more time on browse/standards compliance over the last decade than any other issue in the computer industry. I find it hard to believe we are all still stuck with this garbage after all these years! As far as coding goes, I canot imagine not using ASP.NET anymore. Development is quite, easy to maintain and it abstracs the lower levels of development by providing easy methods for extended and creating custom controls issolating complex pages into more managable and reusalbe components. Add to this, the abiltity to tap into almost the entire .NET frameworks! I can now build applications that use the same data and business layer for both desktop and web applications. Now with WPF and Silverlight, much of the presentation layer will be able to be used in either web or desktop. Yep, ASP.NET is the only way I will develop for the web or intranet! Now if I could just get away from HTML/CSS/JavaScript I would have it made :)
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