This is Top Secret!
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Marc Clifton wrote:
acknowledge that you don't belong to any communist parties
you may have made it up, but it is there, and any organization that would go against the government of the USA or current governing body, the list is about one paragraph long with sentance lists too long to read outloud in one breath.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
but it is there, and any organization that would go against the government of the USA or current governing body,
Ah thought I remembered something like that. It's been some 20 years since I had to apply for a TS clearance (bother, even saying so is in violation of the clearance, I believe). Marc
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That reads more like a CIA or NSA employment application.
“If we are all in agreement on the decision - then I propose we postpone further discussion of this matter until our next meeting to give ourselves time to develop disagreement and perhaps gain some understanding of what the decision is all about.”-Alfred P. Sloan
true, and this was just secret for a civilian air force engineering position.
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
They'll do a background check going back until you started puberty. Be prepared to spend alot of time filling out all kinds of paperwork for starting the check, like digging up names and addresses and phones of practically everyone you know, knew, or who's butt's your dog sniffed. Any and all financial stuff, including taxes, investments, savings, under the table jobs, ... You'll finish that packet with a pile of paper about a minimum of a 1/2 inch thick (no joke.) Then you wait, and answer some more questions from the background investigator, and wait, and answer, and wait, and answer, then you "kind of" get the job, but while you're "working" on stuff you ARE able to see, your background is still going on. It takes quite a long time to get "officially cleared". You really have to consider how this is going to impact your entire familty. Your're putting your entire family and extended family under the microscope, even some friends. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it. After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time. Again, is it worth it??
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007 -
Top Secret clearance usually entails stuff like - Are you generally untrustworthy or a blabbermouth - Are your friends and family a little dodgy - Do you understand the importance of keeping information classified (ie do you have a brain) - Is there anything about you that will make you subject to blackmail #4 is the biggie. You can be involved in all sorts of nefarious activities like being a cross-dressing, caberet-dancing, VB developer who is into S&M puppetry but they don't care as long as you admit it. If you are into something you don't want anyone else to know about then you can be blackmailed. Just be prepared for friends you haven't seen in a long time calling you up and saying "What have you done? I just got a strange call from a strange man asking very, very strange questions about you". It can be fun :)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
- Is there anything about you that will make you subject to blackmail #4 is the biggie. You can be involved in all sorts of nefarious activities like being a cross-dressing, caberet-dancing, VB developer who is into S&M puppetry but they don't care as long as you admit it. If you are into something you don't want anyone else to know about then you can be blackmailed.
I had a friend getting clearance for working at GCHQ (UK NSA style establishment) and during a vetting interview he felt things we not going well. When asked "anything else you'd like to mention?" he apparently thought hard and then explained a Police caution he'd had when he was 18 (which the Police said wouldn't go onto any files/records). As soon as he mentioned that, the interview changed much more positive and he got clearance through within days. So the moral is, they know a lot about you (more than you'd admit to prospective employers, etc.) -- be honest with them, the "employer" (in the original poster's case, the Air Force) is unlikely to have anything explained except Cleared/Rejected.
Regards, Ray
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
You have to be able to list all immediate relatives and their current whereabouts, what they do for a living, and list every place you've lived and worked for the last X number of years (I think Secret is 7 years, but Top Secret may be twice that). You will also be required to list all foreign countries you've visited - ever. Next, they'll want to know if you've ever filed for bankruptcy. Felony arrests and prison/jail time will also be requested. And they don't want general dates. The more specific you are, the more smoothly your clearance will go. I think it costs $50K-75K to perform the background check. They will have all of your tax records at their disposal, as well as back records and any financial dealings that could possibly show up on a credit report. It'll probably take you the better part of four hours to provide all of that information. Believe me when I say they will investigate you (including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
leckey wrote:
My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
The biggest thing to remember is do not lie. Period. Be prepared with job and personal references. Account for every year of your adult life (school, work, etc. if you were out of work for a year, list it as "out of work" if you were between schools, list it as a semester vacation or something. A blank year is a red flag that you are hiding something, deliberately leaving something out. You will be asked every time you left the country within the last period of years (I forget how long). Don't forget a minor one day shopping trip or sightseeing trip to Canada or Mexico, etc. Your family and friends will be interviewed, be prepared. Don't worry, the only black they wear are perfectly shined shoes (definitely a sign of something being up). And be prepared to loose your privacy. You will never know if they do, but you will sign away the right to have everything in your life monitored at any time they feel like it. Internet, phone conversations, home or at work. It's just a fact of life you live with. Secret clearance is easier, Top Secret is difficult, the interview and background check is long. You will be granted a temporary "classified" (below secret and top secret) based on quick interviews, and the final top-secret clearance will take how ever long it takes. It's not so bad, but don't cheat on your taxes again. ;) they don't ask about your taxes, but they do a background check. If you added your dog as a dependant on your taxes, you may get turned away, but otherwise no one will audit you. My brother leaves the country regularly because he has kids in Thailand, I have to inform them of any personal contact with him because of that. If I leave the country for any reason, I must have a debrief following my return and list every person I had contact with or everywhere I went. Your life is an open book once any clearance is granted. They don't care much about your dirty laundry, as long as it is not VERY dirty, the person who is willing to hide their dirty laundry is blackmailable.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh.
El Corazon wrote:
you will sign away the right to have everything in your life monitored at any time they feel like it. Internet, phone conversations, home or at work
my aunt is in the secret service, we're periodically notified that if she contacts us(calls to wish happy birthday, calls to catch up, anything) that we will be monitored for a bit. depending on the job intermediate family could also be monitored to make sure they arent terrorist or associated with terrorists(not specifically terrorists, but anyone the government would considered a "threat").
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
-
They'll do a background check going back until you started puberty. Be prepared to spend alot of time filling out all kinds of paperwork for starting the check, like digging up names and addresses and phones of practically everyone you know, knew, or who's butt's your dog sniffed. Any and all financial stuff, including taxes, investments, savings, under the table jobs, ... You'll finish that packet with a pile of paper about a minimum of a 1/2 inch thick (no joke.) Then you wait, and answer some more questions from the background investigator, and wait, and answer, and wait, and answer, then you "kind of" get the job, but while you're "working" on stuff you ARE able to see, your background is still going on. It takes quite a long time to get "officially cleared". You really have to consider how this is going to impact your entire familty. Your're putting your entire family and extended family under the microscope, even some friends. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it. After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time. Again, is it worth it??
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time.
That is the hardest thing, anything classified doesn't exist, so you are doing "nothing". You can't call while you are in certain areas, but you can't clam ever entering those areas, so you can't explain why you were unavailable. I've heard it can be very rough on families.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was interviewed by the Air Force for a friend (who is an officer). They asked questions like: -"Did he ever leave the country"? -"When he left the country, do you know what he left the country for"? -"Has he ever used any drugs"? Along with a few other questions that basically seemed aimed at determining if he associated with unscrupulous characters. They didn't ask if he ever cheated on his taxes.
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You have to be able to list all immediate relatives and their current whereabouts, what they do for a living, and list every place you've lived and worked for the last X number of years (I think Secret is 7 years, but Top Secret may be twice that). You will also be required to list all foreign countries you've visited - ever. Next, they'll want to know if you've ever filed for bankruptcy. Felony arrests and prison/jail time will also be requested. And they don't want general dates. The more specific you are, the more smoothly your clearance will go. I think it costs $50K-75K to perform the background check. They will have all of your tax records at their disposal, as well as back records and any financial dealings that could possibly show up on a credit report. It'll probably take you the better part of four hours to provide all of that information. Believe me when I say they will investigate you (including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too
And your dog, and the person who walks your dog. And their dogs too...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too
And your dog, and the person who walks your dog. And their dogs too...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Heaven help you if you have ever been a client of a cat. That's an automatic red flag.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
I was required to apply for Secret (just short of Top Secret) clearance when I was still in the SA Air Force, but left before it was granted. We had to fill in a form of about ten to fifteen pages, basically giving a comprehensive enough personal history for them to corroborate, since grade school.
I do not believe they are right who say that the defects of famous men should be ignored. I think it is better that we should know them. Then, though we are conscious of having faults as glaring as theirs, we can believe that that is no hindrance to our achieving also something of their virtues. - W. Somerset Maugham My New Blog
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"Have you ever been to a Turkish prison" "You ever seen a grown man naked" Airplane (1980)
WPF - Imagineers Wanted Follow your nose using DoubleAnimationUsingPath
I'm sorry I don't speak 'Jive'.
God Bless, Jason
I am not perfect but I try to be better than those before me. So those who come after me will be better than I am. -
My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
A friend of mine works as an FAA contractor and had to undergo a similar background check. It was not painful, but was in depth.
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for, in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
"To have a respect for ourselves guides our morals; to have deference for others governs our manners." - Laurence Sterne
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El Corazon wrote:
but it is there, and any organization that would go against the government of the USA or current governing body,
Ah thought I remembered something like that. It's been some 20 years since I had to apply for a TS clearance (bother, even saying so is in violation of the clearance, I believe). Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
apply for a TS clearance
applying for is common, no one "claims" to having a TS clearance except to specific prospective employers. Everyone has "classified" which is lowest and no more is admitted. Your true clearance you reveal on a need to know basis. Anyone who brags about having TS, is either an idiot, or lying, or both. All clearances above classified are need to know.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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You fill out a few forms, acknowledge that you don't belong to any communist parties (ok, I made that one up, I think), supply a few references, and rack your brains getting all the information about where you, your parents, your spouse, and your spouses parents were born and 20 years of where you've all lived.
leckey wrote:
for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Define "a little bit" ;P Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
acknowledge that you don't belong to any communist parties
They still ask that for naturalisation!
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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You have to be able to list all immediate relatives and their current whereabouts, what they do for a living, and list every place you've lived and worked for the last X number of years (I think Secret is 7 years, but Top Secret may be twice that). You will also be required to list all foreign countries you've visited - ever. Next, they'll want to know if you've ever filed for bankruptcy. Felony arrests and prison/jail time will also be requested. And they don't want general dates. The more specific you are, the more smoothly your clearance will go. I think it costs $50K-75K to perform the background check. They will have all of your tax records at their disposal, as well as back records and any financial dealings that could possibly show up on a credit report. It'll probably take you the better part of four hours to provide all of that information. Believe me when I say they will investigate you (including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001It takes a while to get the clearance too, at least for a contractor. For a contractor it takes close to a year and a half. It can be a PITA filling in all the places and dates you've visited, especially when you lived most of your adult life near the Detroit/WIndsor border. Friends, relatives, and neighbors can get a nice surprise when a FBI agent comes around asking them questions about you and then scopes out the area of the interviewee.
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
My brother does this kind of work in California and he loves it. However, you are monitored 24/7/365. You can't bring any electronic devices into the facility and you can't take anything out. That's about all I know.
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Top Secret clearance usually entails stuff like - Are you generally untrustworthy or a blabbermouth - Are your friends and family a little dodgy - Do you understand the importance of keeping information classified (ie do you have a brain) - Is there anything about you that will make you subject to blackmail #4 is the biggie. You can be involved in all sorts of nefarious activities like being a cross-dressing, caberet-dancing, VB developer who is into S&M puppetry but they don't care as long as you admit it. If you are into something you don't want anyone else to know about then you can be blackmailed. Just be prepared for friends you haven't seen in a long time calling you up and saying "What have you done? I just got a strange call from a strange man asking very, very strange questions about you". It can be fun :)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
VB developer who is into S&M puppetry
I thought that was a requirement...
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
Like others've said it's a pain to fill out all the paperwork and you have to answer alot of personal questions. That said, as long as your background is clean, and you're honest in answering everything, you shouldn't have any problems getting approved eventually. That said, one thing that noone seems to've mentioned that you might want to consider. After going through all the trouble to get your clearance you could discover that instead of working on Something Really Cool You Can't Talk About, that you're just doing an accessVBA app and only need the clearance to do the deployment on the production system once or twice a year. :doh:
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.