This is Top Secret!
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
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They'll do a background check going back until you started puberty. Be prepared to spend alot of time filling out all kinds of paperwork for starting the check, like digging up names and addresses and phones of practically everyone you know, knew, or who's butt's your dog sniffed. Any and all financial stuff, including taxes, investments, savings, under the table jobs, ... You'll finish that packet with a pile of paper about a minimum of a 1/2 inch thick (no joke.) Then you wait, and answer some more questions from the background investigator, and wait, and answer, and wait, and answer, then you "kind of" get the job, but while you're "working" on stuff you ARE able to see, your background is still going on. It takes quite a long time to get "officially cleared". You really have to consider how this is going to impact your entire familty. Your're putting your entire family and extended family under the microscope, even some friends. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it. After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time. Again, is it worth it??
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Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time.
That is the hardest thing, anything classified doesn't exist, so you are doing "nothing". You can't call while you are in certain areas, but you can't clam ever entering those areas, so you can't explain why you were unavailable. I've heard it can be very rough on families.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was interviewed by the Air Force for a friend (who is an officer). They asked questions like: -"Did he ever leave the country"? -"When he left the country, do you know what he left the country for"? -"Has he ever used any drugs"? Along with a few other questions that basically seemed aimed at determining if he associated with unscrupulous characters. They didn't ask if he ever cheated on his taxes.
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You have to be able to list all immediate relatives and their current whereabouts, what they do for a living, and list every place you've lived and worked for the last X number of years (I think Secret is 7 years, but Top Secret may be twice that). You will also be required to list all foreign countries you've visited - ever. Next, they'll want to know if you've ever filed for bankruptcy. Felony arrests and prison/jail time will also be requested. And they don't want general dates. The more specific you are, the more smoothly your clearance will go. I think it costs $50K-75K to perform the background check. They will have all of your tax records at their disposal, as well as back records and any financial dealings that could possibly show up on a credit report. It'll probably take you the better part of four hours to provide all of that information. Believe me when I say they will investigate you (including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too
And your dog, and the person who walks your dog. And their dogs too...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too
And your dog, and the person who walks your dog. And their dogs too...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Heaven help you if you have ever been a client of a cat. That's an automatic red flag.
Software Zen:
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
I was required to apply for Secret (just short of Top Secret) clearance when I was still in the SA Air Force, but left before it was granted. We had to fill in a form of about ten to fifteen pages, basically giving a comprehensive enough personal history for them to corroborate, since grade school.
I do not believe they are right who say that the defects of famous men should be ignored. I think it is better that we should know them. Then, though we are conscious of having faults as glaring as theirs, we can believe that that is no hindrance to our achieving also something of their virtues. - W. Somerset Maugham My New Blog
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"Have you ever been to a Turkish prison" "You ever seen a grown man naked" Airplane (1980)
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I'm sorry I don't speak 'Jive'.
God Bless, Jason
I am not perfect but I try to be better than those before me. So those who come after me will be better than I am. -
My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
A friend of mine works as an FAA contractor and had to undergo a similar background check. It was not painful, but was in depth.
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for, in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
"To have a respect for ourselves guides our morals; to have deference for others governs our manners." - Laurence Sterne
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El Corazon wrote:
but it is there, and any organization that would go against the government of the USA or current governing body,
Ah thought I remembered something like that. It's been some 20 years since I had to apply for a TS clearance (bother, even saying so is in violation of the clearance, I believe). Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
apply for a TS clearance
applying for is common, no one "claims" to having a TS clearance except to specific prospective employers. Everyone has "classified" which is lowest and no more is admitted. Your true clearance you reveal on a need to know basis. Anyone who brags about having TS, is either an idiot, or lying, or both. All clearances above classified are need to know.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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You fill out a few forms, acknowledge that you don't belong to any communist parties (ok, I made that one up, I think), supply a few references, and rack your brains getting all the information about where you, your parents, your spouse, and your spouses parents were born and 20 years of where you've all lived.
leckey wrote:
for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Define "a little bit" ;P Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
acknowledge that you don't belong to any communist parties
They still ask that for naturalisation!
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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You have to be able to list all immediate relatives and their current whereabouts, what they do for a living, and list every place you've lived and worked for the last X number of years (I think Secret is 7 years, but Top Secret may be twice that). You will also be required to list all foreign countries you've visited - ever. Next, they'll want to know if you've ever filed for bankruptcy. Felony arrests and prison/jail time will also be requested. And they don't want general dates. The more specific you are, the more smoothly your clearance will go. I think it costs $50K-75K to perform the background check. They will have all of your tax records at their disposal, as well as back records and any financial dealings that could possibly show up on a credit report. It'll probably take you the better part of four hours to provide all of that information. Believe me when I say they will investigate you (including everyone you know, and your neighbors, too).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001It takes a while to get the clearance too, at least for a contractor. For a contractor it takes close to a year and a half. It can be a PITA filling in all the places and dates you've visited, especially when you lived most of your adult life near the Detroit/WIndsor border. Friends, relatives, and neighbors can get a nice surprise when a FBI agent comes around asking them questions about you and then scopes out the area of the interviewee.
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
My brother does this kind of work in California and he loves it. However, you are monitored 24/7/365. You can't bring any electronic devices into the facility and you can't take anything out. That's about all I know.
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Top Secret clearance usually entails stuff like - Are you generally untrustworthy or a blabbermouth - Are your friends and family a little dodgy - Do you understand the importance of keeping information classified (ie do you have a brain) - Is there anything about you that will make you subject to blackmail #4 is the biggie. You can be involved in all sorts of nefarious activities like being a cross-dressing, caberet-dancing, VB developer who is into S&M puppetry but they don't care as long as you admit it. If you are into something you don't want anyone else to know about then you can be blackmailed. Just be prepared for friends you haven't seen in a long time calling you up and saying "What have you done? I just got a strange call from a strange man asking very, very strange questions about you". It can be fun :)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
VB developer who is into S&M puppetry
I thought that was a requirement...
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
Like others've said it's a pain to fill out all the paperwork and you have to answer alot of personal questions. That said, as long as your background is clean, and you're honest in answering everything, you shouldn't have any problems getting approved eventually. That said, one thing that noone seems to've mentioned that you might want to consider. After going through all the trouble to get your clearance you could discover that instead of working on Something Really Cool You Can't Talk About, that you're just doing an accessVBA app and only need the clearance to do the deployment on the production system once or twice a year. :doh:
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
Gobs and gobs and gobs and gobs of paperwork. You'll need dates of where you've lived, jobs, explanations for any periods of jobless-ness, relatives' vital statistics, references ... The biggest thing is to tell the truth. Bad things, per se, are not grounds for denial - it's hiding them that is an instant no-go. Anything "bad" must be known or else it is grounds for blackmail. Your references will be checked, residency verified, relatives' statuses checked, foreign travel scrutinized. As of a year ago, it was taking 9-12 months for a secret clearance and an additional 6 months for a top-secret. If a clearance is granted, all foreign travel must be approved. Contacts with foreigners must be reported along with any "suspicious" behavior or questions directed at you. You'll sign away the right to talk about what you do in anything but the most general terms (for example, read my profile - that description is all I can say about 10+ years of work.) Cleared work can be a major blast - depending on the job, you may get to do some wild things and take some interesting trips but it comes with a responsibility that I'd never felt before and haven't felt since. Judy
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Like others've said it's a pain to fill out all the paperwork and you have to answer alot of personal questions. That said, as long as your background is clean, and you're honest in answering everything, you shouldn't have any problems getting approved eventually. That said, one thing that noone seems to've mentioned that you might want to consider. After going through all the trouble to get your clearance you could discover that instead of working on Something Really Cool You Can't Talk About, that you're just doing an accessVBA app and only need the clearance to do the deployment on the production system once or twice a year. :doh:
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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I know it's Java and JDEE and apparently working with weather systems.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
yeah, I was a bit over the top. What I meant was you could just end up with a regular job with extra security hassles. Probably still an improvement over normal + high job security risk though.
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
It's no worse than a Secret clearance, really, except that you have to sleep with a FBI agent for two weeks; an ugly one. You'll get used to the daily body cavity searches in no time...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
After that, you don't get to talk about the project to anyone, including your family, EVER. Even if you leave the project, you take what you know to the grave. You may also have to leave your family behind to work on the project for extended periods of time.
That is the hardest thing, anything classified doesn't exist, so you are doing "nothing". You can't call while you are in certain areas, but you can't clam ever entering those areas, so you can't explain why you were unavailable. I've heard it can be very rough on families.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
With the changes in my life in recent years, it's simply not worth it. My family comes first, and I'll quit any job that tries to change that. I'll drop my creds and walk right then and there.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007 -
My consultant that I worked with on another job opportunity mentioned last night a job at an Air Force base. However, it's a 'Top Secret' clearance job. Has anyone gone through this before? What does it entail? I don't want to apply if I'm gonig to get the rack for cheating a little bit on my taxes.
Hey! I finally found a picture of myself!
What you have to ask yourself is will this clearance be permanent or temporary. I ask this because a temporary clearance can be granted based upon a permanent previous level clearance and has an expiration date. It can also be revoked for little or no reason other than "you don't need it anymore". You can get a temporary top secret with less difficulty if you have or had a permanent secret level clearance. Most of what I read on what needs to be done on this thread apply to permanent Secret level clearance. Permanent Top Secret is much more rigorous. Permanent Top Secret clearances for the US military (any federal position actually) typically involve the following (spent 11 years in the Corps so I have a bit of experience with it): 1. You fill out a massive questionaire that asks many questions about your history (including naming people in your history that you use as "references"). 2. You get interviewed based upon the answers that you provided in the questionaire. 3. A police record check is performed on you and usually your immediate family. 4. All those people you mentioned in your history get interviewed and they are asked to provide additional names. 5. Those additional people are interviewed. 6. You are interviewed *again* with the information provided by all other people questioned and what they developed based upon the background checks performed. Basically it means surrendering most (if not all) of the most personal information about you and your immediate family to the government so they can be sure that you're worth trusting. Yes, I know the government and trust. Anyway, there you have it. Ask your consultant if the job has a temporary or a permanent clearance requirement, that will give you an idea of what you have to look forward to for the job. Oh, and good luck!
Mike Poz