Microsoft Certifications...Need em? How many? Why?
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Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.
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Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayEnnis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization
Well, I've got 5 certs and I have a really poor memory. I sat through the exams and worked everything out. Therefore your statement in my case is false.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.
For someone, like me, with a poor memory I do need a deep understanding. And I object to being called a lemming.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: SQL Server Managed Objects AND Reporting Services ... My website
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I don't fully agree. You can say that about any degree: college, universities and that wouldn't be quite accurate. The problem is that tests from organizations like TestKing somehow have the questions and the answers of these certs, thus offering people the possibility of memorizing their way through. I have an MCP in ASP.NET and some of the questions I got during the test were quite dumb, like "Where in the menu can you find the option for ...", which has nothing to do with ASP.NET. Now if there were actually questions that represented real ASP.NET situations like creating controls dynamically, leveraging the capabilities of client side/server side, etc, these certifications would probably worth more. Of course having the answers to the questions available on the internet should be out of the question. MS should manage this better. It's not that they don't worth anything, it's just that they don't worth much, because people were able to cheat their way through.
Last modified: 2mins after originally posted --
Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy
Mircea Grelus wrote:
It's not that they don't worth anything, it's just that they don't worth much, because people were able to cheat their way through.
Well put.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
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So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
The Microsoft Certification is like asking the inmates to run the asylum! As an employer (and SW engineer) rather candidates had spent time on a good basic engineering degree and learn how to learn - everything flows from that. Should add nothing wrong with going on a specific course to bootstrap a new technology learn - but an exam does little to prove capability, experience does that…... Bob
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So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
I don't find the certifications useful in a competency sense. I work with a group of amazing developers (for the most part), and none of them carry a single certification. Yet I believe they create some excellent applications. I'm a Senior Applications Architect, and (with all due modesty), I think I create some great stuff too - for a "hired gun." I have no certifications, and it hasn't hurt me. Contrary, we interface with developers outside of our organization, many of whom sport several sets of initials after their signature line. They're certified, and they frequently write crap - crap that fails, and crap that gets hacked! Regardless, it has become a requirement of our arrangement to have a certain number of certifications among the members of our group. Yes, we will take them. Yes, we will grumble about it. And, yes, we will learn some things - perhaps only a tidbit here and there, but we will learn something. So, are they valuable? Well, those crappy developers have jobs, and I have to assume it was their certifications and not their skills that got them where they are today. My group will be getting certifications, possibly to secure their jobs. So, yes, they're valuable, but in general, I don't believe them to be a good measure of ability. --Barry
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So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
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So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
Basically I am new to this field .. new to C# programming .. and I read everything what these really eminent people who are far more wiser than me say .. But what I sincerely feel about certifications is that certifications for me are inspirations. It's a reward given to me by someone who have a say in a professional world. (And I am not yet that much professional so I might be feeling like that). People may have whatever says about MS but still they have to agree that MS is a big organization and really owns some credit in market. Reagrdless of that not just MS but any company that offers certifications has both aspects .. that you know their technology and secondly (and perhaps of more interest to the company) you use their technology.. And about giving exam... it's a personal view.. I feel honesty still remains the best policy ... But if someone wants certifications .. well they can be obtained in any way... ENDofTEXT I feel everything in life is worth doing only once.. I am yet to find an exception. Chaitanya Joshi
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fordc03 wrote:
Do you need a certification?
Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.
Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
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fordc03 wrote:
Do you need a certification?
Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.
Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
martin_hughes wrote:
fordc03 wrote: Do you need a certification? Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.
I agree to a point. Both a degree and certifications are useful in showing what you (are supposed to) know before you have any experience. After you've been working for a while, your track record should be your proof and certifications (and degrees to a lesser extent) become rather meaningless. Unless of course your employer needs your certifications to fulfill their MS Parter requirements...
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization
Well, I've got 5 certs and I have a really poor memory. I sat through the exams and worked everything out. Therefore your statement in my case is false.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.
For someone, like me, with a poor memory I do need a deep understanding. And I object to being called a lemming.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: SQL Server Managed Objects AND Reporting Services ... My website
My intent with the statement was the a developer without a deep and complete understanding is a lemming. Since you claim to have a deep understanding you would not qualify for my lemming statement.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
"Need" is a relative term. For us, the answer is a resounding "no" on most fronts (except where partner programme requirements are concerned. That's an issue, given the next bit). In any case it's a moot point as there aren't any MS certifications available in our core technical areas - namely native code development and Visual Studio Extensibility. Everything is geared to .NET, and as we simply don't use it for production code (for mainly technical reasons related to in-process versioning) I doubt we'd have the necessary background to gain those certifications.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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"Need" is a relative term. For us, the answer is a resounding "no" on most fronts (except where partner programme requirements are concerned. That's an issue, given the next bit). In any case it's a moot point as there aren't any MS certifications available in our core technical areas - namely native code development and Visual Studio Extensibility. Everything is geared to .NET, and as we simply don't use it for production code (for mainly technical reasons related to in-process versioning) I doubt we'd have the necessary background to gain those certifications.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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You're literate I assume. All you need to do to pass is visit the cheat sites and memorize the answers. :doh:
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
That's not my way. :)
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford
If I were hiring someone I would rather see a code sample then any number of certifications. Although I am not big on degrees, I would rather see a BS in computer science then a 100 certifications.
MrPlankton
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Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest HemingwayThe biggest value I took from my certifications was knowing new people. People that I wouldn't meet if it wasn't for the certifications process. Like everyone would agree, knowing people takes you to places. Despite this, I have no advantages from being certified or not... looks good on the CV tho... ;P