Job Wanting Question
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If you want to write software for companies (businesses) to help them with their business processes then C# is the way forward. If you want to write software the communicates with hardware then C++ is the way forward. So the question is: What sort of software do you want to write? Or What sort of software do you think you will get a job writing?
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
If you want to write software the communicates with hardware then C++ is the way forward.
Alternately, if you want to work at the larger software only shops, writing software packages like Photoshop, Office, Maya, etc, then I'm pretty sure C++ is still a must know. Also software like games, operating systems, and key operating system components are also still written in C++.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Title..............Military Rank...........Pay Rate(annual).......Learning Curve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assembler..........General.................$140,000+..............3 years+ C / Java...........Colonel.................$100,000+..............2 Years+ C++................Lieutenant Colonel......$70,000+...............2 Years+ C#.................Major...................$50,000+...............1 Year+ VB.................Private - HEHE..........$FREE+.................1 Month -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also learning one language will help to speed up learning curve for other languages. :laugh:
C/Java is higher on the paygrade than C++? I think not my young padawan learner.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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The only thing I worry is if they would accept me after learning and knowing a certain language from yers from now. And the only problem, that really hinders my stability of a programmer is the lack of imagination to picking which type of program to make, etc...
Kuryn wrote:
The only thing I worry is if they would accept me
Some will, some won't. But doesn't change with a degree either. We recently had a gentleman leave here, I guess about a year back. He and I had some disagreements, he refused to accept I had anything to offer, especially with my ideas related to software design. He had several degrees, to him I was just a college drop-out. When I took my first job in engineering there was one PhD who actually asked my boss to pull me from the project because of my lack of education. But they had no one to replace me, so the deal was I continue to do what I do while they look for someone else. They never found someone else, I eventually became the local expert in 3D graphics because of that experience. I won't lie to you and tell you that everyone will accept you. They won't. I can personally guarentee that. The question is what you will do because of that? Will you give up? Will you give in? Do you have the drive and determination to prove yourself? You will have to work harder to prove yourself, because you lack a degree. There are many times I think about going back and getting one, I still may. I write white papers for work that could easily be a Masters or PhD thesis. I even did a Masters project for someone else because he outranked me in the business at the time. I made it quite clear I would do the work as ordered, but that I was objecting to doing someone's college work for them. It's on paper at the company, if anyone ever wants to look. I will most probably go back to get the degree for two reasons: 1) To add to my salary rate (degrees do pay more -- sorry but that is reality), 2) the contract has a 75% degree requirement, they have to have three BS's or one PhD to balance out my lack of degree -- if I move up, that opens a door for someone else without a degree to have a chance 3) because I want to finish what I started in the mid-80's.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I'd love to see a greedy algorithm implemented in Ferengi#[^] Also, isn't it Romulan[^]?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Also, isn't it Romulan[^]?
Klingon Ghob Romulan DenIb Qatlh (Pronunciation - try and grunt as much as possible with the 'Qatlh')
You always pass failure on the way to success.
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The best answer I can give is "Let the project decide." The reason for that is if you try to use some assembly variant for user interface programming, it will take you longer than if you use some interpreted language such as a .Net based language. On the other hand, if you are writing specifically timed device interface source, then assembly is the way to go. C is a useful alternate for underjust less than real time processes, C++ will aid in understanding object oriented programming and is quite useful for interfacing with drivers and doing business logic. I would not use C++ for time critical operations. C# is quite useful for user interface logic. I would not use C# for time critical or software or even middle ware that requires a quick response. As others have said, learning one will aid with the others, but as any professional will note that has had experience with all of those languages, it's the libraries that one will take the longest to learn.
Phil
pbraun wrote:
I would not use C++ for time critical operations.
You wouldn't use C++ for time critical operations? What would you use, VB.NET? :laugh:
"If an Indian asked a programming question in the forest, would it still be urgent?" - John Simmons / outlaw programmer I get all the news I need from the weather report - Paul Simon (from "The Only Living Boy in New York")
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Kuryn wrote:
The only thing I worry is if they would accept me
Some will, some won't. But doesn't change with a degree either. We recently had a gentleman leave here, I guess about a year back. He and I had some disagreements, he refused to accept I had anything to offer, especially with my ideas related to software design. He had several degrees, to him I was just a college drop-out. When I took my first job in engineering there was one PhD who actually asked my boss to pull me from the project because of my lack of education. But they had no one to replace me, so the deal was I continue to do what I do while they look for someone else. They never found someone else, I eventually became the local expert in 3D graphics because of that experience. I won't lie to you and tell you that everyone will accept you. They won't. I can personally guarentee that. The question is what you will do because of that? Will you give up? Will you give in? Do you have the drive and determination to prove yourself? You will have to work harder to prove yourself, because you lack a degree. There are many times I think about going back and getting one, I still may. I write white papers for work that could easily be a Masters or PhD thesis. I even did a Masters project for someone else because he outranked me in the business at the time. I made it quite clear I would do the work as ordered, but that I was objecting to doing someone's college work for them. It's on paper at the company, if anyone ever wants to look. I will most probably go back to get the degree for two reasons: 1) To add to my salary rate (degrees do pay more -- sorry but that is reality), 2) the contract has a 75% degree requirement, they have to have three BS's or one PhD to balance out my lack of degree -- if I move up, that opens a door for someone else without a degree to have a chance 3) because I want to finish what I started in the mid-80's.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I've always wanted to be a programmer. I have the drive. And I'll admit it. I've wanted to give up at times. Cause I'm too ambitious for my own good xD. I always want to create something also. I know, that I need to quit letting my ambitious attitude and thinking get in my way. And Also because the things I want to do are like so hard, that when I look at examples of how they did it. It's really overwhelming(sp?) that it turns me away. I never thought that programming was going to be easy. But I didn't think it would be that hard either. I have the attitude to do it. And I have the drive. The only reason, that I didn't finish high school was because oh drinking and doing drugs and skipping. I was 18 in the 9th grade cause of my rebellious attitude and things in school. But if I really wanted to I could have made straight A's through school. But one other thing that limited it also was my inability to comprehend(sp?) things. I was what you would call a slow learner. But once I got the idea of things. I didn't really have much of that a problem with it unless I was away from that solution from a long time. Like when I was learning the Japanese language it took me awhile to pronounce the 'r' sound in it. And now I finally understood how to pronounce it and a few other things. But my lack of staying with it, because I rather be on a computer and talking to chicks and my friends. I don't pay attention to it. I really wanna learn it but I have a problem with one other thing is learning two things at once. I can't read a C++ book then later switch to reading a Japanese book without leaving the other one in the dust. I know that will be a big problem with computer programming is my inept ability to learning so much all at once without forgetting other things. Like the more I learn the more I forget others. In a way its like my memory is full and other to make room for new things, I must forget something to make the nescessary changes. V_V
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I was wondering which language would be best to go for? C or C++ or C#. I don't have a problem learning either language. But I'm necessary have the hard option of picking one or the other. And I wonder which one would be better to go for. I have knowledge in both languages.
Why not know both C/C++ and C#? You then give yourself plenty of skills to market. Once you learn one of them, the other is a snap. Maybe C/C++ first, then C# follows since it is quite similar.
"Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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simple : What do you want to do ? what is you field of interest ? You want to do payroll in banks ? You want to do games ? You want to do engineering stuff ? You want to do hardware interfaces ? You want to do graphic things ? You want to do scientific applications ? ... Decide, then do a bit of research to see what languages they use and decide from that point.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Maximilien wrote:
You want to do graphic things ?
yeah, yeah! I wanna do graphic thingies! :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I'd love to see a greedy algorithm implemented in Ferengi#[^] Also, isn't it Romulan[^]?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'd love to see a greedy algorithm implemented in Ferengi#[^]
All algorithms in Ferengi# are naturally greedy. It's trying to write non-greedy algorithms in Ferengi# that is difficult. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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pbraun wrote:
I would not use C++ for time critical operations.
You wouldn't use C++ for time critical operations? What would you use, VB.NET? :laugh:
"If an Indian asked a programming question in the forest, would it still be urgent?" - John Simmons / outlaw programmer I get all the news I need from the weather report - Paul Simon (from "The Only Living Boy in New York")
Hmmm. Absolutely. Its the best programming language ever. One must believe absolutely everything that Bill Gates says. He would never say anything that was not true. Oh, and everything you read on the internet is true. Oh hey, in case your interested, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
Phil
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I would love to do video game programming. And it be nice to actually do hardware and desktop. I have done some COM programming. I've done a basic console of MSN connecting to the server and signed on to it.
Commerical software (including games) are almost entirely written in C or C++, and will likely be for quite some time. You will find certain commercial apps written in Java (mostly development tools, ironically.. or maybe not so ironic) and i've seen several .NET commercial apps (besides developer tools). For instance, Act! 2005 or greater are all written in .NET. Game development is tough nut to crack, though. You really have to be dedicated, willing to work for peanuts (until you build a reputation), and need to find a way to crack the "portfolio" problem (you need to show them exampls of your work). However, the vast majority of jobs these days are in Java or .NET, largely in corporations.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Kuryn wrote:
Everything except scientific applications. Cause I'm not that well know with the major elite math knowledge. Since I've dropped out of high school and only have my ged. And don't have a degree in Computer Science.
That is not a direct translation of action, reaction. If you don't want to do this, that is fine. But it is all up to you and what you are willing to do to get the job. Sure it is harder to do the more computational jobs with a lack of education, but not impossible. So the question is again, What do YOU want to do. I read above that you would like to write games, is that the only thing you really enjoy writing? Is there a road to get there from where you are? I have a high school diploma, graduated 12th in my class of 238, nothing spectacular, but pretty decent. I dropped out of college for various reasons, the largest was political with the school, but my home and personal life was hell. I needed a change. The only road out that was offered to me was business computers science. I took the path, with full knowledge I didn't want to stay there. I learned ledgers and payrolls and receivables. I can do double entry accounting and I could write a full payroll system complete with w2 magnetic media reporting for the federal government. But I didn't want to stay there. I made my own road, I paved it through hard work and determination. Now I do C++/C programming for a major contracting firm, I interface to hardware, remote control vehicles, specialize in telepresence and virtual reality. Some of my algorithms are standards for VR work since the 1990's. Several more are becoming standards now, especially in areas of augmented reality (hybrid live video and virtual reality). I give presentations occasionally around the USA in areas of unmanned aerial vehicle controls, to parallel computation. But I never went back for a degree. Some will look at me as a college drop-out, others as an industry leader. I am neither. I am simply paving my own road through life to do what I want to do. I took a D three times in Calculus in college, and an F in physics. I'll give you three guesses what I do now in my virtual worlds. :-D No matter your past, you still make your future. Sure it is hard. I've done grunt work, I've paid my dues in hours and horrible ex-bosses. But I kept in mind what I wanted to do. You can do the same, but it is a LOT of hard work. So the question comes down, what do YOU want to do? Then pave your ow
El Corazon wrote:
I have a high school diploma, graduated 12th in my class of 238, nothing spectacular, but pretty decent.
Maybe not spectacular, but pretty damn good nonetheless.
Someone's gotta be the last to know, but why is it always me?
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pbraun wrote:
I would not use C++ for time critical operations.
You wouldn't use C++ for time critical operations? What would you use, VB.NET? :laugh:
"If an Indian asked a programming question in the forest, would it still be urgent?" - John Simmons / outlaw programmer I get all the news I need from the weather report - Paul Simon (from "The Only Living Boy in New York")
Did someone say time-critical operations? How about Silverlight? :laugh:
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'who is destroying the world?' YOU ARE!!" - Ayn Rand.