How do you handle Microsoft Support when the problem is not reproducible?
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We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
You should contact them and explain the problem as you see it. It might be possible that there are some services or something accessing the documents and making them not available until the operation finishes, or maybe - if there are custom build modules - they were not developed correctly and block documents. It is possible that they have encountered this before and point you in a new direction to look for the problem. The worse it can be is where you're now
Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy
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We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
Just kidding. :-D
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
[my articles] -
We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
u$ has the ability to log into your machine with your permission using "my meeting/livemeeting". The support rep will ask you to install the live meeting active x control, the control will give the support rep access to your machine with your permission. You can then demonstrate the problem. This assumes that the machine in question in on a network.
MrPlankton
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We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
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u$ has the ability to log into your machine with your permission using "my meeting/livemeeting". The support rep will ask you to install the live meeting active x control, the control will give the support rep access to your machine with your permission. You can then demonstrate the problem. This assumes that the machine in question in on a network.
MrPlankton
I can't demonstrate the problem because I can't reproduce it at will. It never fails on my desktop, but I've seen it fail for other users. When I try to troubleshoot the problem on their desktop, it will fail once or twice and then it starts working. Or it will fail for the day, but the next day it works.
It's good to be alive
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Did you get the Australian Time patch?
xacc.ide - now with IronScheme support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 1 out nowNo. Does it handle this reliability problem?
It's good to be alive
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No. Does it handle this reliability problem?
It's good to be alive
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I can't demonstrate the problem because I can't reproduce it at will. It never fails on my desktop, but I've seen it fail for other users. When I try to troubleshoot the problem on their desktop, it will fail once or twice and then it starts working. Or it will fail for the day, but the next day it works.
It's good to be alive
Just a few things that come to mind; have you checked the event logs for the server and clients? what does the event log say on the victim machine for system and application? are there common faiures that occurr just before or just after the failure in the event logs on both client and server? sharepoint uses sql. Have you checked the sql logs at time of failure? Have you checked u$ knowledgebase and forums? u$ many times does not publish hotfixes. You have to call in for those, you may not have a lot of evidence but they may recognise a hot-fixable problem.
MrPlankton
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I can't demonstrate the problem because I can't reproduce it at will. It never fails on my desktop, but I've seen it fail for other users. When I try to troubleshoot the problem on their desktop, it will fail once or twice and then it starts working. Or it will fail for the day, but the next day it works.
It's good to be alive
Sounds suspiciously like a network problem of some kind. I used to be a network tech for years and we saw problems similar to what you describe when there was faulty cabling, network adapters set to forced full duplex etc. Network problems can present as application problems without a hint of an error referring to the network connection itself. They can also plague a single application doing heavy or unusual network access making it appear there is a problem with the program itself. It wouldn't hurt to have your cabling tested (number one network problem), ensure network adapters are not set to full duplex etc, typical network troubleshooting stuff you could bring in a tech to check. Update all network adapter drivers and firmware if there is any routers etc involved. Then don't change anything and see if it arises again. If it persists do some *serious* and organized troubleshooting to try to get it to be reproducible and narrow it down. The fact that you never see it on your computer is telling and could mean either you don't access it as often and so haven't hit the problem yet (basic statistics) or that it's a problem that is confined to a specific set of circumstances in which case detailed and organized troubleshooting is in order. I.E. track which computers it happens on, what time of day, what document, which login accounts etc. Track all information possible and then when you have enough start trying to infer a pattern in it. Information is crucial in a situation like this. Have the users keep a log of time of day, document, error etc.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
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Just a few things that come to mind; have you checked the event logs for the server and clients? what does the event log say on the victim machine for system and application? are there common faiures that occurr just before or just after the failure in the event logs on both client and server? sharepoint uses sql. Have you checked the sql logs at time of failure? Have you checked u$ knowledgebase and forums? u$ many times does not publish hotfixes. You have to call in for those, you may not have a lot of evidence but they may recognise a hot-fixable problem.
MrPlankton
Good ideas, thanks.
It's good to be alive
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Sounds suspiciously like a network problem of some kind. I used to be a network tech for years and we saw problems similar to what you describe when there was faulty cabling, network adapters set to forced full duplex etc. Network problems can present as application problems without a hint of an error referring to the network connection itself. They can also plague a single application doing heavy or unusual network access making it appear there is a problem with the program itself. It wouldn't hurt to have your cabling tested (number one network problem), ensure network adapters are not set to full duplex etc, typical network troubleshooting stuff you could bring in a tech to check. Update all network adapter drivers and firmware if there is any routers etc involved. Then don't change anything and see if it arises again. If it persists do some *serious* and organized troubleshooting to try to get it to be reproducible and narrow it down. The fact that you never see it on your computer is telling and could mean either you don't access it as often and so haven't hit the problem yet (basic statistics) or that it's a problem that is confined to a specific set of circumstances in which case detailed and organized troubleshooting is in order. I.E. track which computers it happens on, what time of day, what document, which login accounts etc. Track all information possible and then when you have enough start trying to infer a pattern in it. Information is crucial in a situation like this. Have the users keep a log of time of day, document, error etc.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
Now there is some meat to bite into to. Thanks.
It's good to be alive
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We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
Viagra. Marc
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Viagra. Marc
Marc I've nearly finished the first Use Case sample. I'll be uploading it in the next couple of days.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Marc I've nearly finished the first Use Case sample. I'll be uploading it in the next couple of days.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I've nearly finished the first Use Case sample. I'll be uploading it in the next couple of days.
Awesome! :jig: Marc
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We’ve had an ongoing problem with SharePoint Document Libraries, a problem that is sporadic and non-reproducible. I’m wondering if anyone has any insight with the problem or can give me some direction on how to approach Microsoft Support with the problem. The problem: I’ve sat at a user’s desk and watched them check a document out and five minutes later not be able to check the same document out again. I’ve sat at a user’s desk that is unable to retrieve a document; his browser just quits. The next day it all works fine for him. I’ve been on calls to our plant in Australia at 7pm trying to get a user the ability to edit a spreadsheet in a Document Library. The next day it works for him, yet nothing has changed. I’ve seen it enough to know it is not user error, but we can’t reproduce it enough to troubleshoot. Dilemma: I hesitate to put a ticket in with Microsoft because of the reproducibility issues; how do I explain to MS and how do we know they have fixed it?
It's good to be alive
MS Support: "Non-Reproducible Errors (NREs) are an ongoing problem with Microsoft products, and we have spent literally dozens of manhours looking into the problem. But since we have been unable to reproduce the errors - Duh!!! - our team of support specialists has concluded that these anomolies are caused by SUEs (Stupid User Events), and cannot be corrected."
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
