Who we are
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Lets test this scientifically. Register a new test user on CP and Usenet, and post the same set of poorly worded and homework style questions on both, some in incorrect forums and compare the results. Maybe this could be my first CP article :)
Simon
"A quantified comparison of Poster Abuse" ?
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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Lets test this scientifically. Register a new test user on CP and Usenet, and post the same set of poorly worded and homework style questions on both, some in incorrect forums and compare the results. Maybe this could be my first CP article :)
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
Maybe this could be my first CP article
I say, "Go for it!"
BDF A learned fool is more a fool than an ignorant fool. -- Moliere
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Good point.
Marc Clifton said "good point" to me. this can't be real. :wtf: i think i will go to the pub tonite.
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
jgasm wrote:
this can't be real.
Good point. ;P Funny man, hahaha. If we ever meet, I'll buy dinner. Marc
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Instead of the voting system that's now in place, we should have a single "voting" link that only the OP can click - something along the lines of "Chosen Solution". At that point, the OP is the only one that can "vote" in the thread, and he can only make a positive statement.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I totally agree, although I have forsaken any hope of changing the voting system. :sigh: Aside from that, we need to stop the negative feedback loop.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Lets test this scientifically. Register a new test user on CP and Usenet, and post the same set of poorly worded and homework style questions on both, some in incorrect forums and compare the results. Maybe this could be my first CP article :)
Simon
really good idea. but only if you use a female name and a male name in different instance to compare the gender factor ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
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Marc Clifton wrote:
just kidding! I have a wonderful girlfriend and don't google for dating websites!
Is this why you think every one of my posts references pr0n? Oh wait - that might just be me.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Oh wait - that might just be me.
I think it might be the combination. I had this friend years ago (sadly we lost contact with each other) and she and I could basically bring the house down just bouncing off each other with jokes, innuendos, etc. I've never met anyone like that since. Marc
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The recent comments about the quality of questions in the CP programming forums got me to thinking about how I find answers to questions myself. For many years before I found CodeProject, I read the Usenet programming newsgroups (now called google groups). Here are some of the differences between Usenet programming forums and CP programming forums: On CP
- Trivial or obvious questions will often be answered with "just google it."
- Questions pertaining to school assignments will usually be met with responses that range from "We're not going to do your homework for you" to "You're so lazy you're going to fail the class anyway."
- Posters who don't like the answers they get sometimes become abusive and make personal attacks.
- It's rare that a poster will thank anyone for a helpful answer.
- The overall impression after reading the forums for a while is that the posters seem to be fairly young and not very mature.
On Usenet
- It's rare that even basic questions will be met with the "google it" answer. If a direct answer to the question is not given, it's common to see a deep link into MSDN, etc. The tone of answers overwhelmingly seem to be respectful of the poster. The only offense not tolerated is cross-posting.
- Whether a question relates to school or not never comes up. Never.
- It is very, very rare to see any kind of personal attack or harsh words.
- It is common for posters to thank those who have answered.
- The overall impression is that the forums are frequented by professionals seeking answers from other professionals.
Of course, I know that my observations may not be shared by all, and yes, I'm sure there are counter examples. My conclusion: I would guess that posting questions on CP is much easier than dealing with the Usenet forums, and so to some extent CP is a victim of its own success. Can we do anything to help? I strongly believe so. First, I think we should stop - completely stop - disrespecting posters. If it's a homework question, or a question you absolutely know can be found using google, then fine - don't answer it at all. If the poster starts making insults, do not respond. If not replying really bothers you, then click on the abuse link. Whatever you suspect about the poster, I believe we have to treat them like they were a family member - don't blow them off, and if you reply, do it in a professional, civil man
I completely agree. If i see some ridiculous question, like "I need to do make XYZ program, can you give me some code?" I usually don't anyswer, infact there's usually at least 1 answer already about doing their own homework etc. And about google, i am a little guilty of that, though i do provide a link to a helpful page, and i may not be as harsh as others. Still, i think we should all try a bit harder. Like i've said a few times, if ever'body stopped posting and complaining about any problems so much, there would be as much of a problem, or at least there wouldn't seem to be.
My current favourite word is: Bacon!
-SK Genius
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really good idea. but only if you use a female name and a male name in different instance to compare the gender factor ;P
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
And a non-gender specific name as a control. For example, am i a guy or a gal?
My current favourite word is: Bacon!
-SK Genius
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Oh wait - that might just be me.
I think it might be the combination. I had this friend years ago (sadly we lost contact with each other) and she and I could basically bring the house down just bouncing off each other with jokes, innuendos, etc. I've never met anyone like that since. Marc
Am I the only one who sees innuendo in the word innuendo?
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I completely agree. If i see some ridiculous question, like "I need to do make XYZ program, can you give me some code?" I usually don't anyswer, infact there's usually at least 1 answer already about doing their own homework etc. And about google, i am a little guilty of that, though i do provide a link to a helpful page, and i may not be as harsh as others. Still, i think we should all try a bit harder. Like i've said a few times, if ever'body stopped posting and complaining about any problems so much, there would be as much of a problem, or at least there wouldn't seem to be.
My current favourite word is: Bacon!
-SK Genius
Yes, but it's not just a problem of perception - we are actually creating a negative feedback loop and making it worse.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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The recent comments about the quality of questions in the CP programming forums got me to thinking about how I find answers to questions myself. For many years before I found CodeProject, I read the Usenet programming newsgroups (now called google groups). Here are some of the differences between Usenet programming forums and CP programming forums: On CP
- Trivial or obvious questions will often be answered with "just google it."
- Questions pertaining to school assignments will usually be met with responses that range from "We're not going to do your homework for you" to "You're so lazy you're going to fail the class anyway."
- Posters who don't like the answers they get sometimes become abusive and make personal attacks.
- It's rare that a poster will thank anyone for a helpful answer.
- The overall impression after reading the forums for a while is that the posters seem to be fairly young and not very mature.
On Usenet
- It's rare that even basic questions will be met with the "google it" answer. If a direct answer to the question is not given, it's common to see a deep link into MSDN, etc. The tone of answers overwhelmingly seem to be respectful of the poster. The only offense not tolerated is cross-posting.
- Whether a question relates to school or not never comes up. Never.
- It is very, very rare to see any kind of personal attack or harsh words.
- It is common for posters to thank those who have answered.
- The overall impression is that the forums are frequented by professionals seeking answers from other professionals.
Of course, I know that my observations may not be shared by all, and yes, I'm sure there are counter examples. My conclusion: I would guess that posting questions on CP is much easier than dealing with the Usenet forums, and so to some extent CP is a victim of its own success. Can we do anything to help? I strongly believe so. First, I think we should stop - completely stop - disrespecting posters. If it's a homework question, or a question you absolutely know can be found using google, then fine - don't answer it at all. If the poster starts making insults, do not respond. If not replying really bothers you, then click on the abuse link. Whatever you suspect about the poster, I believe we have to treat them like they were a family member - don't blow them off, and if you reply, do it in a professional, civil man
I used to answer math questions at Math Nerds Free Math Help and Tutoring[^] (I am still listed as a volunteer at the FAQ page). During two years of volunteering I have answered about 1500 questions. The site is designed to help students with their math, including homework but it doesn't mean giving answers and/or whole work done. The idea behind the site is to give hints and references. As it is said in their faq: We do not contribute to the abuse of the internet via doing homework, take home tests, or school related projects. We desire to help our clients by providing guidance, references, and hints, not answers. When someone posts question there, there is a textbox for them to show what they have done and where they got stuck. It is very helpful for volunteer as you know the exact problem they are stuck at and you will be able to give a very specific hint. On the other hand the more general a question is the more difficult it is to answer. The idea of my post is that users should post questions when the need directions on some subject or when they have done some work, got stuck with specific problem, tried to solve the problem and are willing to show the work they have done. In such case it will be easier for others to answer them.
Giorgi Dalakishvili #region signature my articles #endregion
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Yes, but it's not just a problem of perception - we are actually creating a negative feedback loop and making it worse.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
I remember when i first started answering questions on CP (rather than asking them) and i spoke out against just saying to use google (just as a reply, not like a whole topic on the subject), and the person said that after a while you just get sick of the same questions over and over. I realise that i have slowly started to do the same, and i intend to change back. I came here firstly to be helped, and then to help. If people hadn't put up with my stupid questions (Chris G. came up alot) i wouldn't be still be here trying to help other people, even if i don't help out as often as i could. Infact, if it wern'r for your topic, who knows how much further i could have slipped before i realised it.
My current favourite word is: Bacon!
-SK Genius
-
The recent comments about the quality of questions in the CP programming forums got me to thinking about how I find answers to questions myself. For many years before I found CodeProject, I read the Usenet programming newsgroups (now called google groups). Here are some of the differences between Usenet programming forums and CP programming forums: On CP
- Trivial or obvious questions will often be answered with "just google it."
- Questions pertaining to school assignments will usually be met with responses that range from "We're not going to do your homework for you" to "You're so lazy you're going to fail the class anyway."
- Posters who don't like the answers they get sometimes become abusive and make personal attacks.
- It's rare that a poster will thank anyone for a helpful answer.
- The overall impression after reading the forums for a while is that the posters seem to be fairly young and not very mature.
On Usenet
- It's rare that even basic questions will be met with the "google it" answer. If a direct answer to the question is not given, it's common to see a deep link into MSDN, etc. The tone of answers overwhelmingly seem to be respectful of the poster. The only offense not tolerated is cross-posting.
- Whether a question relates to school or not never comes up. Never.
- It is very, very rare to see any kind of personal attack or harsh words.
- It is common for posters to thank those who have answered.
- The overall impression is that the forums are frequented by professionals seeking answers from other professionals.
Of course, I know that my observations may not be shared by all, and yes, I'm sure there are counter examples. My conclusion: I would guess that posting questions on CP is much easier than dealing with the Usenet forums, and so to some extent CP is a victim of its own success. Can we do anything to help? I strongly believe so. First, I think we should stop - completely stop - disrespecting posters. If it's a homework question, or a question you absolutely know can be found using google, then fine - don't answer it at all. If the poster starts making insults, do not respond. If not replying really bothers you, then click on the abuse link. Whatever you suspect about the poster, I believe we have to treat them like they were a family member - don't blow them off, and if you reply, do it in a professional, civil man
I've noticed this too, and I find it irritating even in the Lounge. There's no need to be rude, just ignore the thread and move on. There has been lots of flaming of new and non-English speaking visitors in The Lounge in the last week alone and quite honestly, I find it a little off-putting. It doesn't bring anything constructive to the conversation (or for that matter, the site itself) and it alienates a lot of people. It's just rude, and smacks of clique, bitchiness and snobbery. Again, if you don't like a post (or poster) for whatever reason, just ignore it and move on. There's no need to start an epic flamewar over it.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
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That's because we've exhausted the talent pools overseas which has led to rampant wage inflation amongst the talented. Yet companies still want to produce software for peanuts, so now they dredge the bottom of the barrel for anyone who can spell .Net (and apparently n.tE is close enough).
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
You're saying that there are no more talents over there? I don't think that, it's mostly about lowering the cost of the final product.
Work @ Network integrated solutions | Flickr | A practical use of the MVC pattern
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And a non-gender specific name as a control. For example, am i a guy or a gal?
My current favourite word is: Bacon!
-SK Genius
From your name alone, it is not possible to know with certainty. From having read things you've posted in the past, and especially your history of favourite words, I think you're a guy. But a fine human being in either case. :)
BDF A learned fool is more a fool than an ignorant fool. -- Moliere
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jesarg wrote:
I think that if someone posted a the same questions in the same way on CodeProject, they'd get roughly the same response.
Thank you! I was hoping someone would get this. Just because the posters here might be less mature, it should not influence our own behavior. If we let it influence our behavior - by flaming the poster - it reflects poorly on the entire CP community.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
I think what really bugs you is CP members mocking those who post inane questions (for their own amusement). It certainly does give the forums less of a professional feel and more of a juvenile schoolyard feel. However, the oldest and most mature members of CodeProject are among the most likely to start these mocking sprees; I respect your efforts to maintain a more professional feel on this site, but I think it will be a constant uphill battle.
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You're saying that there are no more talents over there? I don't think that, it's mostly about lowering the cost of the final product.
Work @ Network integrated solutions | Flickr | A practical use of the MVC pattern
I'm saying the talent has become pricey as a result of scarcity, while the drive for costs has not changed. Ergo many offshored solutions go to those who are cheap, if not capable.
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
-
The recent comments about the quality of questions in the CP programming forums got me to thinking about how I find answers to questions myself. For many years before I found CodeProject, I read the Usenet programming newsgroups (now called google groups). Here are some of the differences between Usenet programming forums and CP programming forums: On CP
- Trivial or obvious questions will often be answered with "just google it."
- Questions pertaining to school assignments will usually be met with responses that range from "We're not going to do your homework for you" to "You're so lazy you're going to fail the class anyway."
- Posters who don't like the answers they get sometimes become abusive and make personal attacks.
- It's rare that a poster will thank anyone for a helpful answer.
- The overall impression after reading the forums for a while is that the posters seem to be fairly young and not very mature.
On Usenet
- It's rare that even basic questions will be met with the "google it" answer. If a direct answer to the question is not given, it's common to see a deep link into MSDN, etc. The tone of answers overwhelmingly seem to be respectful of the poster. The only offense not tolerated is cross-posting.
- Whether a question relates to school or not never comes up. Never.
- It is very, very rare to see any kind of personal attack or harsh words.
- It is common for posters to thank those who have answered.
- The overall impression is that the forums are frequented by professionals seeking answers from other professionals.
Of course, I know that my observations may not be shared by all, and yes, I'm sure there are counter examples. My conclusion: I would guess that posting questions on CP is much easier than dealing with the Usenet forums, and so to some extent CP is a victim of its own success. Can we do anything to help? I strongly believe so. First, I think we should stop - completely stop - disrespecting posters. If it's a homework question, or a question you absolutely know can be found using google, then fine - don't answer it at all. If the poster starts making insults, do not respond. If not replying really bothers you, then click on the abuse link. Whatever you suspect about the poster, I believe we have to treat them like they were a family member - don't blow them off, and if you reply, do it in a professional, civil man
Brilliant, Hans. This is one of the motivations for the new, simplified voting. I strongly encourage you to vote a dumb question down and ignore it rather than abusing it. I'm also happy to simlpy make such questions disappear it they are truly awful (and we've all seen them) On the other side I do also want good answers applauded and will be looking at ways at rewarding members even more for helpful posts.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Am I the only one who sees innuendo in the word innuendo?
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Am I the only one who sees innuendo in the word innuendo?
:laugh: Marc
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think when answering obvious homework questions, the poster needs to demonstrate that some effort was exerted.
i think Hans point was to just ignore the question...not hand out answers.
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
Wheres the fun in that?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown "All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon