Installs taking longer than downloads
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I read an interesting point in Bill Gates' usability email[^] (from the Insider.)
The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes.
I hadn't thought of it until now but a few years ago it took hours to download an application and at most 30 minutes to install the app. I used to often leave downloads overnight, ready to install in the morning. These days I can get 500mb in a couple of minutes. Installers however have only got slower. Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly. The download takes 15 minutes. Weird.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly.
Maybe it searches your 2 terabyte hard disk to look for 'cracks' that defeated the previous version :rolleyes:
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 4a out now (29 May 2008) -
Paul Watson wrote:
Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly.
Maybe it searches your 2 terabyte hard disk to look for 'cracks' that defeated the previous version :rolleyes:
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 4a out now (29 May 2008)heh. Actually, CS3 fails to install (after an hour of churning) if you have a previous version of CS3 installed, a beta or trial version for instance. Very, very frustrating. (And I make do with an 80gb HD. I don't like having anymore, it just encourages waste.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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I read an interesting point in Bill Gates' usability email[^] (from the Insider.)
The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes.
I hadn't thought of it until now but a few years ago it took hours to download an application and at most 30 minutes to install the app. I used to often leave downloads overnight, ready to install in the morning. These days I can get 500mb in a couple of minutes. Installers however have only got slower. Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly. The download takes 15 minutes. Weird.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
IIRC, i can download a new copy of Illustrator faster than i can get my existing copy to start up.
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IIRC, i can download a new copy of Illustrator faster than i can get my existing copy to start up.
:laugh: The same applies for Acrobat Reader as well.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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I read an interesting point in Bill Gates' usability email[^] (from the Insider.)
The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes.
I hadn't thought of it until now but a few years ago it took hours to download an application and at most 30 minutes to install the app. I used to often leave downloads overnight, ready to install in the morning. These days I can get 500mb in a couple of minutes. Installers however have only got slower. Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly. The download takes 15 minutes. Weird.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
a few years ago it took hours to download an application
Hmm... It seems I'm still living in a few years ago. :-D
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
} -
Simon Stevens wrote:
Save yourself the wasted time and don't even bother with the download. Try some of these[^].
Thanks Simon, tried them all and I think Photoshop is still the best for photo work. I also like Macromedia Adobe Fireworks. I am a bit odd in that regard, so few other people like it.
Simon Stevens wrote:
Acrobat reader in particular.
I am on Mac OS X. PDFs load in under a second, Quick View in OS X is very, very nice. On Windows, you are so screwed with PDF, sorry.
Simon Stevens wrote:
Everything with the word Adobe in it just completely and utterly sucks.
Their apps are good but their installers are crap.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
tried them all and I think Photoshop is still the best for photo work.
Yeah, unfortunately, I suspect your probably right. I don't do anything serious, so I get by with paint.net for the most part. I have heard that photoshop simply is required for serious photo editing.
Paul Watson wrote:
I am on Mac OS X. PDFs load in under a second
Interesting, so maybe I should be blaming windows for my pdf woes. (I have now switched to foxit[^] which is much lighter, but wouldn't compete with your mac by any means.
Simon
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Paul Watson wrote:
a few years ago it took hours to download an application
Hmm... It seems I'm still living in a few years ago. :-D
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}Yeah, it helps working for the government, you get big fat pipes for nothing.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Paul Watson wrote:
tried them all and I think Photoshop is still the best for photo work.
Yeah, unfortunately, I suspect your probably right. I don't do anything serious, so I get by with paint.net for the most part. I have heard that photoshop simply is required for serious photo editing.
Paul Watson wrote:
I am on Mac OS X. PDFs load in under a second
Interesting, so maybe I should be blaming windows for my pdf woes. (I have now switched to foxit[^] which is much lighter, but wouldn't compete with your mac by any means.
Simon
Simon Stevens wrote:
Interesting, so maybe I should be blaming windows for my pdf woes.
Ah no, blame Adobe. The Adobe Reader app. is slow on Mac OS X too. But Mac OS X has built-in PDF viewing so it is unfairly fast. Technically Windows could do it too but I imagine Adobe would sue Microsoft or something equally pathetic. FoxIt is your best bet on Windows. If you use Firefox 3 then this extension[^] is pretty handy too.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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I was pleasantly suprised with the Vista install. A shame everything after the install is so poor.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
A shame everything after the install is so poor.
:~ What exactly? Vista is the second best desktop OS I have tried (the best one is Windows Server 2008 with some tweaks :) )
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Yeah, it helps working for the government, you get big fat pipes for nothing.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
for nothing.
It seems I'm living in a few decades ago, since I have to pay for my bandwidth. By the way, would you please download VS 2008 express edition for me and email it to me?!! :-D
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
} -
Paul Watson wrote:
A shame everything after the install is so poor.
:~ What exactly? Vista is the second best desktop OS I have tried (the best one is Windows Server 2008 with some tweaks :) )
Aero, UAC, rough edges, inconsistencies, change-for-change-sake and no command-line improvements. I've gone back to Windows XP when I need Windows.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Paul Watson wrote:
for nothing.
It seems I'm living in a few decades ago, since I have to pay for my bandwidth. By the way, would you please download VS 2008 express edition for me and email it to me?!! :-D
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}Hamed Mosavi wrote:
It seems I'm living in a few decades ago, since I have to pay for my bandwidth.
Ah yeah, I do pay at home but it is pretty darned cheap (€40 for 6mb/s.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Hamed Mosavi wrote:
It seems I'm living in a few decades ago, since I have to pay for my bandwidth.
Ah yeah, I do pay at home but it is pretty darned cheap (€40 for 6mb/s.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
€40 for 6mb/s
I pay 30$ for 64Kbps with 5GB limitation.
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
} -
Paul Watson wrote:
€40 for 6mb/s
I pay 30$ for 64Kbps with 5GB limitation.
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}Sounds like back home in South Africa, expensive there too.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
-
I read an interesting point in Bill Gates' usability email[^] (from the Insider.)
The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes.
I hadn't thought of it until now but a few years ago it took hours to download an application and at most 30 minutes to install the app. I used to often leave downloads overnight, ready to install in the morning. These days I can get 500mb in a couple of minutes. Installers however have only got slower. Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly. The download takes 15 minutes. Weird.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Heh, was just thinking about this while installing Firefox 3 the other day. Not because it installed slowly; because both the download and the installation took less time than the installation for Application Verifier (which i'd installed just the day before, and is only slightly smaller than FF). I suspect most installers are doing things they really shouldn't be doing...
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Aero, UAC, rough edges, inconsistencies, change-for-change-sake and no command-line improvements. I've gone back to Windows XP when I need Windows.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
Aero
That's something about UI ;P haven't even noticed it.
Paul Watson wrote:
UAC
A *very good thing* - Ubuntu has a similar approach with "sudo".
Paul Watson wrote:
rough edges
Such as?
Paul Watson wrote:
inconsistencies
Such as?
Paul Watson wrote:
change-for-change-sake
Every software product has that :)
Paul Watson wrote:
no command-line improvements
OK, I'll give you that one. But still, the integrated search simply rocks, UAC is a good thing (sorry) and there finally is a proper 64-bit version of desktop Windows.
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Heh, was just thinking about this while installing Firefox 3 the other day. Not because it installed slowly; because both the download and the installation took less time than the installation for Application Verifier (which i'd installed just the day before, and is only slightly smaller than FF). I suspect most installers are doing things they really shouldn't be doing...
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
Shog9 wrote:
I suspect most installers are doing things they really shouldn't be doing...
"Please wait while we scan your HD and send a list of our competitors on your machine back to our marketing team. They will be in contact shortly..."
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
-
I read an interesting point in Bill Gates' usability email[^] (from the Insider.)
The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes.
I hadn't thought of it until now but a few years ago it took hours to download an application and at most 30 minutes to install the app. I used to often leave downloads overnight, ready to install in the morning. These days I can get 500mb in a couple of minutes. Installers however have only got slower. Adobe CS3 takes about an hour to install properly. The download takes 15 minutes. Weird.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Windows Installer is at least partly to blame. The concept sounds great: you declare in a database everything you want to install, the installer core service decides whether a suitable version of each component is already installed and if not, to install it. But we really want to do it transactionally, in an all-or-nothing fashion, and allow low-privileged users to run elevated installs, so we first check all the versions and write a script, then we pass that script to a high-privileged service to execute it. This means we touch every key file already present once, to determine whether it needs to be updated. We still have to try to find the file, even if it isn't there. (This takes a non-zero amount of time.) Any file we do overwrite we have to back up, so we can roll back the install if it fails. Files that are in use have to be installed somewhere else and we call MoveFileEx so they can be overwritten at the next reboot. So we have some idea what went wrong when the install doesn't work properly, we have to log everything we do. It's common now to log everything - hey, we're not short of disk space - so the logging takes longer and longer. It turns out that building a component out of multiple files doesn't work very well - repair checks only the key file, so if any other file in the component is missing or the wrong version, the repair won't pick it up. The solution is to make each file a separate component. This seriously bloats the registry for tracking components, adds more logging to detail each component installed, and causes more file checks overall. Files that don't have a version can be hashed to see if the file is already present and potentially save a file copy operation. However, if the file is in a CAB, such as the embedded CAB, its data will have to be read anyway - CAB compression is on a whole-archive basis, not per-file like ZIP. Really all hashing saves is if an entire CAB can be eliminated. It's really for avoiding downloading CABs from the internet or over the network, if using an HTTP MSI or an administrative share. However, MD5 over a large file takes quite some time, particularly because Windows Installer is stupid enough to try to map the whole file in one contiguous block of virtual address space. (See Wine equivalent[^]). Because components, not resources, are tracked, it's important to keep the
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Sounds like back home in South Africa, expensive there too.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
I read in news that a cheaper service is going to come in a year or so. It's based on a new broad band line that's going to start it's work soon. I hope it come. There are a lot to download already.
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
} -
Shog9 wrote:
I suspect most installers are doing things they really shouldn't be doing...
"Please wait while we scan your HD and send a list of our competitors on your machine back to our marketing team. They will be in contact shortly..."
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
Paul Watson wrote:
"Please wait while we scan your HD and send a list of our competitors on your machine back to our marketing team. They will be in contact shortly..."
Heh, well, that of course, but i was thinking more along the lines of software that can't just be copied onto the machine and run, instead acting like a kid sent to bed but not tired, constantly calling back Ma Installer for one unnecessary little bit of attention after another: component registrations that could be installed local to the app rather than for the machine as a whole, writing configuration defaults that could have lived in pre-written config files (or just built into the app itself), etc... You know, all that stuff that'll eventually fall apart and require the app to be re-installed since it can't live without its installer.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'