The World has gone mad...
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Crikey. I haven't heard anyone mention SSADM in years.
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
Count me in as one of the old guys who uses patterns. I think the ability to recognize when a pattern can be applied, and the ability to communicate that concept quickly to another programmer is a tremendous improvement in application development.
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Crikey. I haven't heard anyone mention SSADM in years.
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
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Along with ADA?
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
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Along with ADA?
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
patterns programming is just another attempt at standardization of methods, this time on algorithms rather than storage. Just as you would recognize the reference to hashes or lists for storage, once you learn the terms you will probably recognize that you have been using them all already, just not in a standard way. So why do patterns? Well, why did we standardize storage? Right now our company has two hash tables. 1) mine 2) someone elses. That someone else is currently debugging his because of multi-threading issues, mine currently is working massively parallel. Duplication of work, and misunderstandings in storage methods, as well as poor implimentations encouraged storage method standardization over the years. Not that everyone is perfect there either (obviously), still the closer everyone comes to standardization with each others work the easier it is to understand someone else's code. patterns are just names to algorithmic pieces of programming code. Not so different than naming nodes interlinked as a doubly linked list. :) most programmers, even the older ones would recognized the names of queues lists arrays and stacks without batting an eye. Patterns are just new names for old methods. :) P.S. I am 43. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
modified on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:31 PM
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"I gots da skillz dood."
Think it's "I gots mad skillz dood."
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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patterns programming is just another attempt at standardization of methods, this time on algorithms rather than storage. Just as you would recognize the reference to hashes or lists for storage, once you learn the terms you will probably recognize that you have been using them all already, just not in a standard way. So why do patterns? Well, why did we standardize storage? Right now our company has two hash tables. 1) mine 2) someone elses. That someone else is currently debugging his because of multi-threading issues, mine currently is working massively parallel. Duplication of work, and misunderstandings in storage methods, as well as poor implimentations encouraged storage method standardization over the years. Not that everyone is perfect there either (obviously), still the closer everyone comes to standardization with each others work the easier it is to understand someone else's code. patterns are just names to algorithmic pieces of programming code. Not so different than naming nodes interlinked as a doubly linked list. :) most programmers, even the older ones would recognized the names of queues lists arrays and stacks without batting an eye. Patterns are just new names for old methods. :) P.S. I am 43. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
modified on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:31 PM
anybody besides me and the OP think that these "common methods" were very poorly named? hash? list? i get that. templateFactorySingleton... Well, back to google again...
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anybody besides me and the OP think that these "common methods" were very poorly named? hash? list? i get that. templateFactorySingleton... Well, back to google again...
Steve Hazel wrote:
hash? list? i get that.
Well.... they are common because they have been around so long they have become common. However. Just as an example. Hash is not so common. :) You have true hashes, and bucket hashes. So when is a hash a hash? when we declare it a hash. With lists you have single, double, and skip lists. How many people know what a skip list is? it never really made the standards.... (pity, I like them) Then you get into multi-threaded implimentations with protected latch lists (protect the attach and detach of a list member) or transactional memory, or optimistic FIFO's, etc. The names mean something to someone, but until they become as old as dirt, we don't recognize them. A template factory singleton is a single unitary existing object (singleton) that produces (factory) a variety of other objects based on some sort of template input. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Along with ADA?
Ahoy! Martin Hughes
martin_hughes wrote:
Along with ADA?
Nope Ada became strictly a military thing. Colleges moved on to other languages rapidly. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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Steve Hazel wrote:
hash? list? i get that.
Well.... they are common because they have been around so long they have become common. However. Just as an example. Hash is not so common. :) You have true hashes, and bucket hashes. So when is a hash a hash? when we declare it a hash. With lists you have single, double, and skip lists. How many people know what a skip list is? it never really made the standards.... (pity, I like them) Then you get into multi-threaded implimentations with protected latch lists (protect the attach and detach of a list member) or transactional memory, or optimistic FIFO's, etc. The names mean something to someone, but until they become as old as dirt, we don't recognize them. A template factory singleton is a single unitary existing object (singleton) that produces (factory) a variety of other objects based on some sort of template input. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
El Corazon wrote:
So when is a hash a hash?
When it's followed by "brown" and served for breakfast :)
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
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El Corazon wrote:
So when is a hash a hash?
When it's followed by "brown" and served for breakfast :)
martin_hughes wrote:
When it's followed by "brown" and served for breakfast
or when you toss in 3 veggies and some left over meat and potatoes and fry them up for supper. :) still no hash standard. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
GriffinPeter wrote:
The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around
If it has, that was about 12 years ago for me.
GriffinPeter wrote:
but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk..
I doubt it. When I discovered design patterns it was a forehead slapping moment becuase I realised that I was already using some of that stuff, but I never realised it. I'd managed to come up with a fair few on my own but never had a name for it. Once I knew the nomenclature things got a lot easier.
GriffinPeter wrote:
Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish?
Well, if you prefer wordy documentation and write a paragraph of explanation where a couple of words could have done it... By the way, I'm over 30 too.
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martin_hughes wrote:
When it's followed by "brown" and served for breakfast
or when you toss in 3 veggies and some left over meat and potatoes and fry them up for supper. :) still no hash standard. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
We'd call that the Bubble and Squeak standard over here (or a variant of) :)
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We'd call that the Bubble and Squeak standard over here (or a variant of) :)
speaking of naming problems. :) sometimes I think all the English's have drifted into babble. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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speaking of naming problems. :) sometimes I think all the English's have drifted into babble. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
Yup, and then we exported it around the world - Open Source licence and all!
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
Try working for a government organization. I have been to meetings where I've walked away and didn't know what half the acronyms meant. :confused:
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Yup, and then we exported it around the world - Open Source licence and all!
please tell me it was reased with a Berkley license and not Gnu!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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State Pattern, Strategy pattern,Visitor pattern, BizConnector, NTier, Adapter and fly weight The world has gone buzzword mad, with all this stuff floating around, isnt there any substitute for good old fashioned analysis and design?? I am over 30 so this might be a case of me being an old Fart.. but all the systems I have designed and written function quite well using the "Old" methods without any of this pattern junk.. Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's?? Its all a waste of time imo, if you can design and code competantly, whats the point in all this pattern rubbish? Prehaps its time for me to retire from coding and move up to the levels of senior management... *stomps off and growls in the corner*
GriffinPeter wrote:
State Pattern
Nothing but good ol' finite state machine[^], which is btw far better represented by graphs than UML.
GriffinPeter wrote:
Strategy pattern
A fancy name for selecting an algorithm at runtime. Did that with a function pointer in C, and now you just need to declare a bunch of classes for the same thing. Progress, and improvement in productivity at work ;)
GriffinPeter wrote:
Visitor pattern
An ugly workaround for languages that don't have multimethods[^]. And of course, it has nothing to do with "visiting".
GriffinPeter wrote:
BizConnector, NTier,
Never heard of them and don't want to :)
GriffinPeter wrote:
Adapter
Used to call it a "wrapper" when I was a boy.
GriffinPeter wrote:
fly weight
Just an optimization to save some memory. In fact, just by not using a garbage collector, you'll most likely never need anything like that.
GriffinPeter wrote:
Or are all of these buzzwords around so programmers have some buzzwords to baffle the managers with on their CV's??
It is all about not being a programmer but becoming an "architect". Unlike programmers, architects are pretty popular among women, and we are trying to steal their title to get some. Hope it makes more sense now :)