VS2010 CTP
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Beth's been taking a look at it in a VM this afternoon, and so far - aside from the WPF startup pack (=slow) - we've not noticed any surprises. The C++ .vcproj file format doesn't seem to have changed to MSBuild format (as we had expected), and we've not spotted any nasties in the automation interfaces so far. Of course, we've not tried porting any of our products to it yet... Anyone else tried it yet? If so, what are your impressions?
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
So do VS2005 plugins work in VS2010 without change?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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<joke>You mean it should a) have a crap compiler and b) crash randomly if you open a large workspace?</joke> To be honest, I've not played with it enough to be able to form an opinion on that! In fact I rather suspect that the only people who could tell you whether it succeeds in that regard are those who still use VC6 in preference to the later versions. As I'm a VS2003 fan, I suspect I'm not qualified. That said, once we've completed a trial port of one of our products to it and actually used the thing for a while, we should be able to tell whether the "10 is the new 6" thing was complete hot wind or not. We may have a crack at that around Christmas; right now we're just too busy to spend much time on it.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Some of us have to use VC6, but not in preference... I use VS2005 and C# for almost all new projects, but I have too much code in VC6 to ever update it.
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My hopes are more for stability than anything - I use Visual Assist for intellisense anyway, so the things we're on the look out for are those which a) affect IDE stability and b) bugger up the add-in environment (VS2005 was a nightmare in both regards; VS2008 is somewhat better). As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
It's the first class language at Intel, and I'd seriously check it out, it integrates well and has a few quirks left, but it can certainly be ahead of anything VC. Visual assist can also get well confused across namespaces, nested types and templates, especially with a same name.. But hey, it is not that crippled C# poor-man generic toy, hence difficult to parse (and rightly so).
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Beth's been taking a look at it in a VM this afternoon, and so far - aside from the WPF startup pack (=slow) - we've not noticed any surprises. The C++ .vcproj file format doesn't seem to have changed to MSBuild format (as we had expected), and we've not spotted any nasties in the automation interfaces so far. Of course, we've not tried porting any of our products to it yet... Anyone else tried it yet? If so, what are your impressions?
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Anyone else tried it yet?
Nope.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
what are your impressions?
From your post, I may give it a try on a VM.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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So do VS2005 plugins work in VS2010 without change?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Provided the automation interfaces haven't been broken (as they were in VS2005, unfortunately) managed add-ins should run without change. COM add-ins will need to be registered under [HKLM|KKCU]\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\10.0\AddIns rather than [HKLM|KKCU]\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\8.0\AddIns. That said, we've not tried it yet. Once I get a chance to, we will. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Anyone else tried it yet?
Nope.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
what are your impressions?
From your post, I may give it a try on a VM.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
It comes in a VM already.... Here[^] :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Some of us have to use VC6, but not in preference... I use VS2005 and C# for almost all new projects, but I have too much code in VC6 to ever update it.
My sympathies. :rose: I ditched it as soon as VS2003 came out (VS2002 was a joke) and I've not looked back. On those rare occasions when I have to use VC6 now it feels like being dragged screaming back into the days of black and white TVs and outside loos. But that's just me, of course... :-\
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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It comes in a VM already.... Here[^] :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Cool deal. I forgot I don't have Virtual PC 2007, but VMWare Server. Still going to give it a go :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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It's the first class language at Intel, and I'd seriously check it out, it integrates well and has a few quirks left, but it can certainly be ahead of anything VC. Visual assist can also get well confused across namespaces, nested types and templates, especially with a same name.. But hey, it is not that crippled C# poor-man generic toy, hence difficult to parse (and rightly so).
I know - a while back we integrated support for the Intel C++ compiler into Visual Lint, so we got to see their handiwork first hand from the inside. :cool: VA does indeed get confused sometimes, but it's pretty good, all things considered.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Cool deal. I forgot I don't have Virtual PC 2007, but VMWare Server. Still going to give it a go :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
I've been meaning to give HyperV a try, but haven't got around to it yet. :doh:
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I've been meaning to give HyperV a try, but haven't got around to it yet. :doh:
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Sounds cool, but I have to get a 64bit machine (hopefully soon), and get Windows Server 2008 going.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Sounds cool, but I have to get a 64bit machine (hopefully soon), and get Windows Server 2008 going.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
I'm surprised you don't have any 64 bit boxes around. Of the machines here, the only two which aren't 64 bit are a four year old Athlon XP 2500+ system (used for testing) and an even older Dell P4 (used for admin). The rest are a mixture of Athlon X2, Core2Duo, Xeon and Opteron systems - all 64 bit.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I'm surprised you don't have any 64 bit boxes around. Of the machines here, the only two which aren't 64 bit are a four year old Athlon XP 2500+ system (used for testing) and an even older Dell P4 (used for admin). The rest are a mixture of Athlon X2, Core2Duo, Xeon and Opteron systems - all 64 bit.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
have any 64 bit boxes around
Not yet, well, unless my wife's laptop counts, but I don't use it for any development stuff whatsoever. Most of my clients do not have any real need for upgrading, so, I've been a little slow on the upgrade as well. One client does have one older 64-bit Athlon.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
have any 64 bit boxes around
Not yet, well, unless my wife's laptop counts, but I don't use it for any development stuff whatsoever. Most of my clients do not have any real need for upgrading, so, I've been a little slow on the upgrade as well. One client does have one older 64-bit Athlon.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Fair enough. :) We push our laptops sufficiently hard that they tend to die after a couple of years, so we tend to have new systems coming in reasonably regularly. That, and I've a habit of acquiring servers at knock down prices (our record is a pair of 2.2GHz dual core Opteron boxes at £99 each[^]*) to use as dev/test systems. :cool: * They have since doubled in price, so I suspect we got a bit of a bargain there!
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Is there anything in the CTP supporting their promise that 10 is going to be new 6 for us [mainly] C++ developers?
There was a "10 is the new 6" session yesterday, and what worried me is that the speaker didn't say one thing about the real reason why people hate everything after 6: horrible usability. I had half a mind to ask the guy "didn't you listen to any of the feedback from the last 2 MVP summits!?!?!?" *shrug*
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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Beth's been taking a look at it in a VM this afternoon, and so far - aside from the WPF startup pack (=slow) - we've not noticed any surprises. The C++ .vcproj file format doesn't seem to have changed to MSBuild format (as we had expected), and we've not spotted any nasties in the automation interfaces so far. Of course, we've not tried porting any of our products to it yet... Anyone else tried it yet? If so, what are your impressions?
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
I saw a .vcxproj yesterday. :( Someone asked the speaker to stop changing the bloody file formats, and he promised this would be the LAST TIME since MSBuild will forever be forward- and backward-compatible.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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Fair enough. :) We push our laptops sufficiently hard that they tend to die after a couple of years, so we tend to have new systems coming in reasonably regularly. That, and I've a habit of acquiring servers at knock down prices (our record is a pair of 2.2GHz dual core Opteron boxes at £99 each[^]*) to use as dev/test systems. :cool: * They have since doubled in price, so I suspect we got a bit of a bargain there!
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
I do plan on looking to do upgrades perhaps after the Christmas holidays. Start 2009 off with some new stuff :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I do plan on looking to do upgrades perhaps after the Christmas holidays. Start 2009 off with some new stuff :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Always a good plan. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I saw a .vcxproj yesterday. :( Someone asked the speaker to stop changing the bloody file formats, and he promised this would be the LAST TIME since MSBuild will forever be forward- and backward-compatible.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
Interesting. Maybe the CTP supports both, but the project wizard we used hasn't been updated yet.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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My hopes are more for stability than anything - I use Visual Assist for intellisense anyway, so the things we're on the look out for are those which a) affect IDE stability and b) bugger up the add-in environment (VS2005 was a nightmare in both regards; VS2008 is somewhat better). As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.