VS2010 CTP
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I'm surprised you don't have any 64 bit boxes around. Of the machines here, the only two which aren't 64 bit are a four year old Athlon XP 2500+ system (used for testing) and an even older Dell P4 (used for admin). The rest are a mixture of Athlon X2, Core2Duo, Xeon and Opteron systems - all 64 bit.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
have any 64 bit boxes around
Not yet, well, unless my wife's laptop counts, but I don't use it for any development stuff whatsoever. Most of my clients do not have any real need for upgrading, so, I've been a little slow on the upgrade as well. One client does have one older 64-bit Athlon.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
have any 64 bit boxes around
Not yet, well, unless my wife's laptop counts, but I don't use it for any development stuff whatsoever. Most of my clients do not have any real need for upgrading, so, I've been a little slow on the upgrade as well. One client does have one older 64-bit Athlon.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Fair enough. :) We push our laptops sufficiently hard that they tend to die after a couple of years, so we tend to have new systems coming in reasonably regularly. That, and I've a habit of acquiring servers at knock down prices (our record is a pair of 2.2GHz dual core Opteron boxes at £99 each[^]*) to use as dev/test systems. :cool: * They have since doubled in price, so I suspect we got a bit of a bargain there!
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Is there anything in the CTP supporting their promise that 10 is going to be new 6 for us [mainly] C++ developers?
There was a "10 is the new 6" session yesterday, and what worried me is that the speaker didn't say one thing about the real reason why people hate everything after 6: horrible usability. I had half a mind to ask the guy "didn't you listen to any of the feedback from the last 2 MVP summits!?!?!?" *shrug*
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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Beth's been taking a look at it in a VM this afternoon, and so far - aside from the WPF startup pack (=slow) - we've not noticed any surprises. The C++ .vcproj file format doesn't seem to have changed to MSBuild format (as we had expected), and we've not spotted any nasties in the automation interfaces so far. Of course, we've not tried porting any of our products to it yet... Anyone else tried it yet? If so, what are your impressions?
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
I saw a .vcxproj yesterday. :( Someone asked the speaker to stop changing the bloody file formats, and he promised this would be the LAST TIME since MSBuild will forever be forward- and backward-compatible.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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Fair enough. :) We push our laptops sufficiently hard that they tend to die after a couple of years, so we tend to have new systems coming in reasonably regularly. That, and I've a habit of acquiring servers at knock down prices (our record is a pair of 2.2GHz dual core Opteron boxes at £99 each[^]*) to use as dev/test systems. :cool: * They have since doubled in price, so I suspect we got a bit of a bargain there!
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
I do plan on looking to do upgrades perhaps after the Christmas holidays. Start 2009 off with some new stuff :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I do plan on looking to do upgrades perhaps after the Christmas holidays. Start 2009 off with some new stuff :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Always a good plan. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I saw a .vcxproj yesterday. :( Someone asked the speaker to stop changing the bloody file formats, and he promised this would be the LAST TIME since MSBuild will forever be forward- and backward-compatible.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
Interesting. Maybe the CTP supports both, but the project wizard we used hasn't been updated yet.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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My hopes are more for stability than anything - I use Visual Assist for intellisense anyway, so the things we're on the look out for are those which a) affect IDE stability and b) bugger up the add-in environment (VS2005 was a nightmare in both regards; VS2008 is somewhat better). As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
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<joke>You mean it should a) have a crap compiler and b) crash randomly if you open a large workspace?</joke> To be honest, I've not played with it enough to be able to form an opinion on that! In fact I rather suspect that the only people who could tell you whether it succeeds in that regard are those who still use VC6 in preference to the later versions. As I'm a VS2003 fan, I suspect I'm not qualified. That said, once we've completed a trial port of one of our products to it and actually used the thing for a while, we should be able to tell whether the "10 is the new 6" thing was complete hot wind or not. We may have a crack at that around Christmas; right now we're just too busy to spend much time on it.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
I've been working with VC6 like... almost 8 years, yes it had a lot of problems but it was simple and i have to admit i've never used MFC or liked a bit of it as i'm a ATL/WTL proud guy. Now i've seen all other VS and the advent of the .NET focussed snafu and even feared i will never find a worthy replacement for the old VC6, but i have to tell you, VC9 IS the new VC6, yes, the one inside VS2008. At least for me, this is the one, i'm more than happy with it, now not only all my old VC6 code has been ported to VC9, i've done it porting everything to Unicode and 64 bits compilable code, as everyone knows the world is made in Unicode, i'm a happy panda again and i think ill pass VS2010 and the rest to come for another decade or so. :laugh: :laugh:
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
Excuse my question. But how on earth do you know this?
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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I've been working with VC6 like... almost 8 years, yes it had a lot of problems but it was simple and i have to admit i've never used MFC or liked a bit of it as i'm a ATL/WTL proud guy. Now i've seen all other VS and the advent of the .NET focussed snafu and even feared i will never find a worthy replacement for the old VC6, but i have to tell you, VC9 IS the new VC6, yes, the one inside VS2008. At least for me, this is the one, i'm more than happy with it, now not only all my old VC6 code has been ported to VC9, i've done it porting everything to Unicode and 64 bits compilable code, as everyone knows the world is made in Unicode, i'm a happy panda again and i think ill pass VS2010 and the rest to come for another decade or so. :laugh: :laugh:
I'm glad you found a worthy replacement. :) VS2008 seems to me to a big improvement on VS2005 for C++, but I still find VS2003 easier and a bit more lightweight. That said, we have multiple versions of project files for our projects, so we can jump IDEs at will. As a result I tend to use VS2008 on my desktop box and VS2003 on my laptop.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Excuse my question. But how on earth do you know this?
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
Because he used to work there. Look up the origins of WTL if you don't believe me. ;)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Because he used to work there. Look up the origins of WTL if you don't believe me. ;)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Sorry, that probably came across wrong. I wasn't questioning that he did know, just how he knew. It just struck me as amazing that they didn't use their own tool.
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
Interesting. What do most MS developers use then? I was actually thinking more in terms of Microsoft's Marketing effort, who are very good at giving the impression that the only VS languages worth promoting are the managed ones. Somehow I doubt that will change significantly in this release.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Most MS developers don't use it at all.
What do they use??
ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
As far as C++ being a "first class language" within MS - I'll believe it when I see it too.
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
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I'm glad you found a worthy replacement. :) VS2008 seems to me to a big improvement on VS2005 for C++, but I still find VS2003 easier and a bit more lightweight. That said, we have multiple versions of project files for our projects, so we can jump IDEs at will. As a result I tend to use VS2008 on my desktop box and VS2003 on my laptop.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
we have multiple versions of project files for our projects, so we can jump IDEs at will.
And how do you do that? we wanna work on the same project with different IDE's as I have VS2008 and my friend has VS2005. So how can we achieve it? Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------------ Life would have been much easier if I had the source-code!!
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
we have multiple versions of project files for our projects, so we can jump IDEs at will.
And how do you do that? we wanna work on the same project with different IDE's as I have VS2008 and my friend has VS2005. So how can we achieve it? Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------------ Life would have been much easier if I had the source-code!!
We maintain multiple versions of the project files, and use a continuous integration server (running CruiseControl.NET[^]) to spot any breaks when files are checked in.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Sorry, that probably came across wrong. I wasn't questioning that he did know, just how he knew. It just struck me as amazing that they didn't use their own tool.
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
That's OK! Nothing surprises me when it comes to large organisations...
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
C++ is definitelly the most important language internaly in MS. However, that does not extend to the Visual Studio IDE. Most MS developers don't use it at all.
Interesting. What do most MS developers use then? I was actually thinking more in terms of Microsoft's Marketing effort, who are very good at giving the impression that the only VS languages worth promoting are the managed ones. Somehow I doubt that will change significantly in this release.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
What do most MS developers use then?
Depending on the team. I think SourceInsight is the most popular for code editing and browsing.