How much to maintain web site?
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The White House is saying that they're having a tough time keeping the White House web site up to date, because they only have 6 people and a budget of $1M. Is this complaint justified? Does anyone have any facts (of other web sites) to compare this with? How much money and how big a support staff do you think they should have to get the job done?
Best wishes, Hans
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I am ready to maintain the site with 50% less and with 2 people :p
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Multiply the salary by 2.5 for insurance, benefits, etc
Wow! You must have way better insurance than I do, and mine's 100% company paid! We tack on 100% for fully burdened labor and have extra to spare. That even covers office space and administration.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
We're not just talking about the direct costs of employment but also the other on-costs. You need HR people to hire and fire them, accounts people to make sure they get paid, security people to check their ID at the door, offices, people to clean the offices, electricity, ... I don't know how the US govt does its accounting, but in all the universities and research labs institutions I've worked in, the multiplier has been between 2.4 and 3.4. (Yes, 3,4!). If you want to hire someone for a project, you need to find 3.4 * salary to pay for that. Sure, some of the costs listed above aren't really a marginal cost, but that's not how the accounting is done. And let's not go trying to explain to accountants that their numbers are rubbery -- life's too short for that.
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You would have to get more hamsters, and then get a hamster supervisor.
Best wishes, Hans
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Hans Dietrich wrote:
a hamster supervisor.
Otherwise called a cat. That'll keep them motivated.
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You would have to get more hamsters, and then get a hamster supervisor.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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The White House is saying that they're having a tough time keeping the White House web site up to date, because they only have 6 people and a budget of $1M. Is this complaint justified? Does anyone have any facts (of other web sites) to compare this with? How much money and how big a support staff do you think they should have to get the job done?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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We're not just talking about the direct costs of employment but also the other on-costs. You need HR people to hire and fire them, accounts people to make sure they get paid, security people to check their ID at the door, offices, people to clean the offices, electricity, ... I don't know how the US govt does its accounting, but in all the universities and research labs institutions I've worked in, the multiplier has been between 2.4 and 3.4. (Yes, 3,4!). If you want to hire someone for a project, you need to find 3.4 * salary to pay for that. Sure, some of the costs listed above aren't really a marginal cost, but that's not how the accounting is done. And let's not go trying to explain to accountants that their numbers are rubbery -- life's too short for that.
stuartprescott wrote:
I don't know how the US govt does its accounting
Very innovatively. The coined the term 'creative accounting". :~
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We're not just talking about the direct costs of employment but also the other on-costs. You need HR people to hire and fire them, accounts people to make sure they get paid, security people to check their ID at the door, offices, people to clean the offices, electricity, ... I don't know how the US govt does its accounting, but in all the universities and research labs institutions I've worked in, the multiplier has been between 2.4 and 3.4. (Yes, 3,4!). If you want to hire someone for a project, you need to find 3.4 * salary to pay for that. Sure, some of the costs listed above aren't really a marginal cost, but that's not how the accounting is done. And let's not go trying to explain to accountants that their numbers are rubbery -- life's too short for that.
stuartprescott wrote:
And let's not go trying to explain to accountants that their numbers are rubbery -- life's too short for that.
True. Besides, it would be cruel. Their hardwired little brains would explode if anyone explained reality to them. Worse, people who work in universities are so far removed from the real world it might well be impossible to even communicate the concept to them. Communication requires some common reference point to begin.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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There's no excuse, either adjust the budget or adjust the services offered. Someones not *managing* like they should be.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Budget? Whats that? oh yea count your money before you actually have it. Something flawed in that logic :doh:
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Multiply the salary by 2.5 for insurance, benefits, etc
Is it really that high?
John
That's what I could swear I've heard from other people or maybe something I read somewhere. Maybe it's too high?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Multiply the salary by 2.5 for insurance, benefits, etc
Is it really that high?
John
I have been working in private sector for 13 years doing IT work. The number I have seen is 2* and that pays the lights and rent and boss's salary and profit for the owner as will. I have never seen costs for servers and bandwidth on top of the hourly rate. My opinion is 2.5 plus hardware and circuits is WAY high. On the other hand, this is the government, and they print the money. Maybe that is how they roll.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Multiply the salary by 2.5 for insurance, benefits, etc
Is it really that high?
John
adding 150% for overhead is around what my co charges, and about what is regularly suggested for approximating the conversion between contract hourly rates and the salaried equivalents. Renting office space isn't cheap, especially in large urban areas...
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I have been working in private sector for 13 years doing IT work. The number I have seen is 2* and that pays the lights and rent and boss's salary and profit for the owner as will. I have never seen costs for servers and bandwidth on top of the hourly rate. My opinion is 2.5 plus hardware and circuits is WAY high. On the other hand, this is the government, and they print the money. Maybe that is how they roll.
ludemade wrote:
On the other hand, this is the government, and they print the money. Maybe that is how they roll.
I agree with that.
John
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Hans Dietrich wrote:
because they only have 6 people and a budget of $1M
That does seem tiny for the amount of material they make available. I would have expected at least 20-30 people or more would be responsible for the site. Heck, Club Penguin employed 150 people before Disney bought them out awhile back. Cheers, Drew.
Yes, especially given Obama's wishes to use Web 2.0 governance techniques more. I'd expect they'd need to add a staff of at least 40 moderators for the topic-separated blog alone (and those moderators better be knowledgeable in both XHTML and the specific legislative track their blog is on). 6 people and a budget of only $1M, for the primary way the first GenX president will communicate with his constituents? Ridiculously small. You *MIGHT* get away with that for the basic IT staff, but when you add the content consistent with the office to that, it's going to explode.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Multiply the salary by 2.5 for insurance, benefits, etc
Is it really that high?
John
It is really that high in the private sector- I'd expect government sector to be WORSE- they've got a union to deal with.
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Do you know how much is that in Zimbabwe? 36,844,444,000,000.00 ZWD This Amount of Budget can maintain 1000000 websites :)
Vuyiswa Maseko, Few companies that installed computers to reduce the employment of clerks have realized their expectations.... They now need more and more expensive clerks even though they call them "Developers" or "Programmers." C#/VB.NET/ASP.NET/SQL7/2000/2005/2008 http://www.vuyiswamaseko.tiyaneProperties.co.za vuyiswam@its.co.za
As long as you don't mind the low bandwidth of the tribal drum link, anyway....
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I am ready to maintain the site with 50% less and with 2 people :p
Does that include moderating the 50 blogs "transition team" Obama would like to link to the site?
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We're not just talking about the direct costs of employment but also the other on-costs. You need HR people to hire and fire them, accounts people to make sure they get paid, security people to check their ID at the door, offices, people to clean the offices, electricity, ... I don't know how the US govt does its accounting, but in all the universities and research labs institutions I've worked in, the multiplier has been between 2.4 and 3.4. (Yes, 3,4!). If you want to hire someone for a project, you need to find 3.4 * salary to pay for that. Sure, some of the costs listed above aren't really a marginal cost, but that's not how the accounting is done. And let's not go trying to explain to accountants that their numbers are rubbery -- life's too short for that.
stuartprescott wrote:
We're not just talking about the direct costs of employment but also the other on-costs. You need HR people to hire and fire them, accounts people to make sure they get paid, security people to check their ID at the door, offices, people to clean the offices, electricity
As Stuart points out OH is much more complicated than a simple multiplier. The OH multiplier is accounting short hand for recovery of additional costs of running the business. It is frequently stated as (in-direct costs) / (direct costs), where in-direct are all the managers, support staff, buildings, utilities, etc. But different companies and industries use different definitions of in-direct vs direct costs. For example some include material in the direct costs, others do not. If you include it and it is a large fraction of your costs, the OH multiplier will be small. If you are a university with no material costs, a relatively small work force and a large fixed cost, the multiplier will be large. Companies can "play" with the OH multiplier by shifting mid level managers or support staff from in-direct to direct. Which lowers the OH multiplier, but does nothing to change the actual cost of doing business. The OH multiplier is not a fixed number. It will need to change if there is a change in either the direct or in-direct costs. For example if you have a staff of ten and layoff five without getting rid of fixed costs like building rents (and ignoring employment taxes for purposes of illustration), the OH multiplier will almost double. Hire ten more people without adding space or management and the OH multiplier will essentially be cut in half. In short, one can not compare OH multipliers with any confidence they mean the same thing unless you know a lot about how companies keep their books. Sorry - if I am lecturing, but this is a concept I have tried to engineers explain a number of times.
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Hans Dietrich wrote:
a hamster supervisor.
Otherwise called a cat. That'll keep them motivated.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Otherwise called a cat
which are of course de rigeur at 1600 penn ave
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The White House is saying that they're having a tough time keeping the White House web site up to date, because they only have 6 people and a budget of $1M. Is this complaint justified? Does anyone have any facts (of other web sites) to compare this with? How much money and how big a support staff do you think they should have to get the job done?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Anyone know how many worked on and how much was spent on Obama's campaign websites. I suspect that over the period of the 2 year campaign. it was a heck of a lot more than 12 man years and orders of magnitude more than $2m.