New Visual Studio built with WPF
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
You can chrome-plate a monkey wrench... and it's STILL just a monkey wrench. I don't need glitz and glitter. I just need the thing to work. And please God... no ribbon in VS!
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Just for the editor? If so, what's the point?, Rather, what's the big deal, other than pretty text, assuming you don't mind WPF text rendering.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
I think you meant "WPF text smearing", didn't you? :sigh: The same UI implemented with WPF will be significantly faster than with Windows Forms. However, the VS performance problems rarely come from the rendering. For me, the main reason is a badly written Intellisense tangling our threads.
Best regards, BB http://bartoszbien.com
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
It's another reason to stick to Notepad.
If you can play The Dance of Eternity (Dream Theater), then we shall make a band.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Just a matter of priorities I suppose.
Yup. Ask for an upgraded GDI, and you get GDI+: half-assed abandonware. Ask for a PDF/Flash competitor, and you get WPF...
Shog9 wrote:
PDF
Oooh oooh - don't forget XPS in there!!!! It's the crazy Microsoft "let's re-invent the wheel (usually with added square-ness)" show!!!
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I read through most of the post. From what I can tell, what they want is a richer, better, more powerful editor. Fair enough. I'm 100% sure what WPF is going to give them here. The WPF text system is surely a HUGE improvement, at least in design, over what GDI gives you, but is that what they will be using? If not, and they write there own, then how much real benefit was WPF, unless what they really want is the databinding/properties API (which is really cool and useful)? Also he mentions: "But using DirectX, directly? Could be issues there -- like terminal server support for instance. WPF is a pretty good compromise. Remember, even games use a rendering engine to simplify their programming model. You can think of WPF as our rendering engine, it helps with the kinds of compositions we want to do." Unless I'm hugely mistaken WPF *IS* DirectX! That's how it does it's drawing under the hood, so either you get kick ass speed if you have a great video card that supports the latest DX, or it sucks monkey nuts because it's using the DX software renderer. It's my understanding that's also why text looks a little weird, because it's nothing more than pre-rendered glyphs that are then assigned to a texture map. Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally I'm dubious about this, but we'll see.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Jim Crafton wrote:
Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally I'm dubious about this, but we'll see.
You could always try it for yourself[^].
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Maybe, just maybe, this means they'll fix WPF... Wouldn't that be nice...
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
How about fixing some of the more heinous bugs: - A linker that doesn't spontaneously die, - A C++ intellisense implementation that works for more than 1/2 an hour at a time before simply stopping. - A configuration manager that in some way performs the tasks expected of it, instead of randomly turning project builds on and off when modified. - The elimination of spontaneous UI lockups that can have DevStudio go off into la la land for a minute at a time - A debugger that doesn't treat Step Over and Run 20% of the time (this one is brutally annoying.) - A fix for the new VSMDI on random operations bug when using TFS. - Less depenence on the .sln files, so that multi-person teams aren't constantly merging (read: redoing) changes. These issues are pushing me ever-closer to looking for a new IDE home. Even if they weren't as feature rich, or as integrated as Visual Studio, at least they wouldn't tease me with 1/2 implemented niceties, and constant performance hiccups (I know, threading and timing out network calls are hard to deal with. I don't care. I want my text editors snappy!)
Syntactic sugar leads to cancer of the semicolon.
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Perhaps you will finally have to start on an upgrade track for your Commodore64. Get a life! My God can't you find something real to complain about? With the speed of machines doubling, easily, every year. I don't see adding WPF as an issue. Go back to frick'n Notepad if that's what you want. I don't see any reason to keep VS in the GUI stone ages because some whiney a$$ed bunch of coders cried about their five year old machine slowing down. Go get a different job then.
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I don't like shiny. I like medium grey, menues, and nice sharp pointy corners.
+1 wpf apps take a little bit longer to load !
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Great. You need a DX12-compatible video card with a billion fracking shaders and pixel pipelines to get the File Open dialog to display. Just what we need...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Great. You need a DX12-compatible video card with a billion fracking shaders and pixel pipelines to get the File Open dialog to display. Just what we need...
so we will stick to vs2008 ! ah by they way they already use wpf with that entity framework thing !
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally I'm dubious about this, but we'll see.
You could always try it for yourself[^].
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
Too late: "After January 1 2009, the Visual Studio software on the Virtual PC will expire." :( Plus I don't feel like downloading the equivalent of 11 CD's just to get a feel for VS. Which brings to mind another gripe: someone at MS really needs to get a grip on the size of some of these programs. It's an IDE for craps's sake, not a friggin OS.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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How about fixing some of the more heinous bugs: - A linker that doesn't spontaneously die, - A C++ intellisense implementation that works for more than 1/2 an hour at a time before simply stopping. - A configuration manager that in some way performs the tasks expected of it, instead of randomly turning project builds on and off when modified. - The elimination of spontaneous UI lockups that can have DevStudio go off into la la land for a minute at a time - A debugger that doesn't treat Step Over and Run 20% of the time (this one is brutally annoying.) - A fix for the new VSMDI on random operations bug when using TFS. - Less depenence on the .sln files, so that multi-person teams aren't constantly merging (read: redoing) changes. These issues are pushing me ever-closer to looking for a new IDE home. Even if they weren't as feature rich, or as integrated as Visual Studio, at least they wouldn't tease me with 1/2 implemented niceties, and constant performance hiccups (I know, threading and timing out network calls are hard to deal with. I don't care. I want my text editors snappy!)
Syntactic sugar leads to cancer of the semicolon.
Frosstoise wrote:
for a new IDE home
Good luck. Practically speaking there aren't really any more out there.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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Too late: "After January 1 2009, the Visual Studio software on the Virtual PC will expire." :( Plus I don't feel like downloading the equivalent of 11 CD's just to get a feel for VS. Which brings to mind another gripe: someone at MS really needs to get a grip on the size of some of these programs. It's an IDE for craps's sake, not a friggin OS.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Jim Crafton wrote:
After January 1 2009, the Visual Studio software on the Virtual PC will expire
MS tell you how to keep using it after then - I'm guessing that if they tell you how to that must be OK :-)
Jim Crafton wrote:
It's an IDE for craps's sake, not a friggin OS
Welll - the download is actually an OS as well - it's an install of VS2010 on Windows Server 2008. Doesn't include MSDN docs, mind, so it could have been even bigger :-)
Jim Crafton wrote:
I don't feel like downloading the equivalent of 11 CD's just to get a feel for VS
That I can understand - it's less of a pain if it's not your own personal bandwidth.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I hadn't, but I still think it's way over the top. If you make a 1MB file filled with regions, it's your own fault that it's slow to scroll through. They could upgrade their algorithms without switching to WPF. It's not as if WPF is doing some kind of magic that they couldn't do normally. edit: the extensibility is nice though.
While a developer may be to blame for a many-thousands-of-lines file, we must admit this happens very often. Every real C++, C#, and Java project I've been on, there's been several files with, say 4-8 thousand lines. Kills the editor. It's true they could just rewrite the GDI one with better algorithms this time around. But given the WPF editor will be far more modular and extensible than a rewritten GDI editor, I'm happy about this move.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Nice!!! Can't wait to see it!! And please, put some 3D on it!
"Go for it!"
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Well it already uses Windows Forms - so, I don't think WPF would make it slower in particular. In fact it may get faster with a good fast video card.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
...that the only thing WPF has to offer is glitz, glamor and flashy animations? Almost all the replies to this post has sounded like "augh, WPF, I don't need shaders in my text!" *sigh* I think part of it is Microsoft's fault, for positioning WinForms as the 'business workhorse' and WPF as the 'sparkly rich experience' thing.
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Did you watch the video?
Todd Smith
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Can anyone confirm or deny this atrocity? http://blogs.msdn.com/ricom/archive/2008/12/02/visual-studio-today-tomorrow-and-beyond.aspx#9172277[^] Are they really planning on build an IDE with WPF? Am I missing something? Is this just old news that I've missed out on? //edit On further googling, it looks like this is a definite. Seems initially like not such a good idea, but I'll be curious to see how well it works.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
blured land comming soon :laugh:
peace & serenity
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Well it already uses Windows Forms - so, I don't think WPF would make it slower in particular. In fact it may get faster with a good fast video card.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkAFAIK a little Windows Forms used in VS 2008. For example property editor is using Windows Forms but most of the UI controls are native controls with COM wrappers.
There is no knowledge, That is not power.