Wag the Dog
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Dave Huff wrote: you stand up straight the popping sound you here is your head coming out of your ass Nope. That was Dubya Bush :) Dave - get an education. Read some history will ya and make some sense. Dave Huff wrote: world should wait until Saddam succeeds in making a nuke The "world" has to do something about Saddam's nukes because the "world" let the situation come to this point. Infact the "world" is America. Don't you Americans understand how much arabs hate you? They really, really do. And for a bloody good reason: your policy in the middle-east is crap. There are some reasons Arabs hate you: - American military personnel on Arab holy soil. Would you like me to piss against the Lincoln Memorial. No? Neither do the arabs. - Overt american support towards Israel. This is one of the worst blunders. Ever. - America is percieved as being an imperialistic power which threatens the local culture and, worse, undermine the local regime. Even more worse, sometimes America support unpopular regimes on the basis of "he's a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch". - American hypocrisy. If america loves democracy so much why does it support corrupt/undemocratic regimes. Pakistan's Musharraf (the one Bush didnt know his name) is suddenly a friend of the US. Why is it America which is being fired at and not Japan or Switzerland or any other country? Please stop and engage your brain before opening your mouth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
David Huff wrote: you stand up straight the popping sound you here is your head coming out of your ass **Brian Azzopardi wrote:**Nope. That was Dubya Bush You should have more respect for a man who almost suceedeed in killing himself using only a pretzel! -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
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Jason Henderson wrote: Sure, their people should have the same rights as Americans but we have no right to go in and dictate who governs them. But they will never the rights unless somebody gives them help in overthrowing the dictators. It is up to the free peoples of the world to help those who are oppressed. Sadly however we are more interested in our new cars and toaster ovens to give two fucks about what happens to some poor sod who decides he doesn't like what Saddam/Mugabe/insert name of hated dictator here. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
Michael P Butler wrote: we are more interested in our new cars and toaster ovens i really like my new Norelco Razor, too. Oh, and my cappuccino maker. That thing kicks ass.:-D BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}
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I would rather we keep our noses out of other countries. Sure, their people should have the same rights as Americans but we have no right to go in and dictate who governs them. However, Iran and Iraq support terrorism and have been beligerent toward us for many years now. On Sept. 11th, terrorists (most likely funded by Iran and Iraq) attacked us. We should formally declare war on these 2 countries just like we did on Japan in '41. We need to take out their leaders and make it impossible for them to wage war or fund a terrorist war ever again.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: However, Iran and Iraq support terrorism and have been beligerent toward us for many years now. On Sept. 11th, terrorists (most likely funded by Iran and Iraq) attacked us. The terrorists were most likely founded by organizations based in Saudi Arabia and the Talibans (who protected osama and his organization) were supported by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Saddam Hussein was supported by the US when he declared war on Iran to gain access to the richest oil reserves on the border between the two counties (just north of Kuwait...) because the US wanted to remove the government of khomeini and put back the shah (that was not exactly liberal and democratic). I don't like Saddam and the government of Iran (even if I think that the efforts of Khatami should be supported by western countries) and I don't like also Fidel Castro or Kim Young Il, but using sept 11 to attack those countries is not correct and, if love for democracy and freedom is the main interest that moves mr. Bush in this campaign, I think that he should consider also other targets for his military efforts... (and maybe also the idea of using other means to reach that goal). -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
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Tim Smith wrote: LOL, it was a tounge in cheek statement. Thought so, but I was trying to grow up, be mature and stop posting bullshit messages in the forum... :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
BlueGrassGroup.com
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: I was trying to grow up, be mature and stop posting bullshit messages in the forum... Oh why go spoiling a good thing like that?:-D
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Jason Henderson wrote: However, Iran and Iraq support terrorism and have been beligerent toward us for many years now. On Sept. 11th, terrorists (most likely funded by Iran and Iraq) attacked us. The terrorists were most likely founded by organizations based in Saudi Arabia and the Talibans (who protected osama and his organization) were supported by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Saddam Hussein was supported by the US when he declared war on Iran to gain access to the richest oil reserves on the border between the two counties (just north of Kuwait...) because the US wanted to remove the government of khomeini and put back the shah (that was not exactly liberal and democratic). I don't like Saddam and the government of Iran (even if I think that the efforts of Khatami should be supported by western countries) and I don't like also Fidel Castro or Kim Young Il, but using sept 11 to attack those countries is not correct and, if love for democracy and freedom is the main interest that moves mr. Bush in this campaign, I think that he should consider also other targets for his military efforts... (and maybe also the idea of using other means to reach that goal). -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
I directly threatened by these terrorists? I am. It is the duty of my government to protect me. You may think you are not threatened by them, but you will be. Sooner rather than later, your government will have to deal with these thugs as well.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
America and the UK have just launched an air-borne attack against a defence site in Western Iraq. I'm not going to say anything about American stupidity because it defies belief but I can't understand how Britain, or more specifically, Blair is being so dumb too :( Why is the UK letting itself get tainted in the eye of the rest of the world by joining in this action? None of the other countries have joined or even supported the attack. The only excuse Blair can come up with is that it helps to strengthen the "special" relationship between Britain and the UK. Didn't Blair learn anything at school? One of his precedessors said something to the effect that allies are temporary, only interests are eternal. Blair would do well to listen to this wise counsel. The special relationship is special only for the British. From the American side Britian is just another small country who just happens to follow orders... America has more important countries to worry about. It's focus is not on Europe anymore now that the communist menace has been eliminated but on the Asian-Pacific rim and (because of the Isreali lobby) the mid-east. British support serves only to confer legitimacy. However the value of this will recede over time. If other countries know that Britain will automatically support the US in whatever adventure the US is currently up to the 2 countries will be seen to have a common foreign policy (Javeir Solana, EU foreign "minister", would kill for this) and thus devalue of support in the eyes of other countries. Britain has lost the excellence it once had in the practice of the fine art of diplomacy. It should learn from the Japanese (especially their expert handling of the Afganistan issue) and hopefully get back it's rightful place. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
I say we bomb the hell out that place and then create parkinglots for the rest of the world!:~ If every fool wore a crown, we would all be king - Lard
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Michael P Butler wrote: It makes you wonder how far governments could go before people started to take notice. Isn't it obvious they already do go too far and we just bend over and take it? Every year they edge a bit further towards what they want, we accept it and then next year when accepting a new shafting forget about last years shafting. i.e. We don't see it adding up. Then one day you wake up and go "OMG, what have we allowed?" Zimbabwe is a good example. Though lack of information and poor media has allowed internal people to think Zim is doing well while Mugabe goes off on a bender. I am with you on wanting to believe the first option. It should be that way, it must be! But it isn't is it? Since when does what we say stay our leaders? They are on their own missions and only listen to us when election time comes around again.
Paul Watson
BlueGrassGroup.com
Cape Town, South AfricaIt is in the inherent nature of government to always increase its ability to control people - all governments, all the time. I'm not a real reverend, I just play one on CP.
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I directly threatened by these terrorists? I am. It is the duty of my government to protect me. You may think you are not threatened by them, but you will be. Sooner rather than later, your government will have to deal with these thugs as well.
Jason Henderson
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articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: I directly threatened by these terrorists? I am. It is the duty of my government to protect me. I didn't say that terrorists are nice and simpathetic people. I said that there are no proves that Iraq and Iran supported them whilst there are proves that they get founding from Saudi Arabia (not directly from the government) and that their sanctuaries in Afghanistan were protected by the Talebans supported by the Pakistani secret service. There were no Afghans, Iraquis or Iranian people among the sept 11 terrorists but many of them came from Saudi Arabia. You didn't explained why Iraq deserves to be bombed more than Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and why Saddam Hussein is more dangerous than for the US than mr. Musharraf secret service or Saudi Arabian banks and organization that proudly found terrorists. And I would be happy if you can explain me why bombing a country is the best way to change its government. After Iraq and Iran what's the next target? Cuba? I think that mr. Bush uses the sept 11 tragedy to follow the interests of the US and, specifically of the lobbies that support him (there is oil in Iraq, you know that?), and that's very cinical. You may think you are not threatened by them, but you will be. Sooner rather than later, your government will have to deal with these thugs as well. I live in europe, so I'm closer than you to Iraq, to middle-east and my country can be reached by some of Saddam's weapons. We are exposed to terrorist attacks more or less in the same way, but I think that bombing Iraq will not increase my security and that there are better ways to increase my security than bombs. -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
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This was a huge operation with about 100 planes. Also, take out this installation and it clears a path for special forces. We know that Iran and Iraq sponsor terrorism. We should just declare war on them both and get it over with.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: This was a huge operation with about 100 planes Wrong. Only 12 planes :-) Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
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Sometimes I think that we forgot who holds the true power in all the countries of the world. It is shocking how people differ on this. Even my brother and I disagree. Me: "The government exists to serve the people." Brother: "The people serve the government." Floored me when he admitted that. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: Brother: "The people serve the government." Maybe he just feels powerless in the face of government? Todd Smith
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Paul Watson wrote: I was trying to grow up, be mature and stop posting bullshit messages in the forum... Oh why go spoiling a good thing like that?:-D
Roger Wright wrote: Oh why go spoiling a good thing like that? I said try, so far I am failing miserably. wOOt!
Paul Watson
BlueGrassGroup.com
Cape Town, South Africa -
Jason Henderson wrote: This was a huge operation with about 100 planes Wrong. Only 12 planes :-) Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
Jason Henderson
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articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Jason Henderson
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articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillNope, Jason , the source is wrong . Check this , from a communication from Pentagon on CNN http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/06/iraq.air.attack/index.html[^] Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
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America and the UK have just launched an air-borne attack against a defence site in Western Iraq. I'm not going to say anything about American stupidity because it defies belief but I can't understand how Britain, or more specifically, Blair is being so dumb too :( Why is the UK letting itself get tainted in the eye of the rest of the world by joining in this action? None of the other countries have joined or even supported the attack. The only excuse Blair can come up with is that it helps to strengthen the "special" relationship between Britain and the UK. Didn't Blair learn anything at school? One of his precedessors said something to the effect that allies are temporary, only interests are eternal. Blair would do well to listen to this wise counsel. The special relationship is special only for the British. From the American side Britian is just another small country who just happens to follow orders... America has more important countries to worry about. It's focus is not on Europe anymore now that the communist menace has been eliminated but on the Asian-Pacific rim and (because of the Isreali lobby) the mid-east. British support serves only to confer legitimacy. However the value of this will recede over time. If other countries know that Britain will automatically support the US in whatever adventure the US is currently up to the 2 countries will be seen to have a common foreign policy (Javeir Solana, EU foreign "minister", would kill for this) and thus devalue of support in the eyes of other countries. Britain has lost the excellence it once had in the practice of the fine art of diplomacy. It should learn from the Japanese (especially their expert handling of the Afganistan issue) and hopefully get back it's rightful place. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Brian Azzopardi wrote: I'm not going to say anything about American stupidity because it defies belief but I can't understand how Britain, or more specifically, Blair is being so dumb too Brian Azzopardi wrote: From the American side Britian is just another small country who just happens to follow orders Are you as dumb as you sound or are you just making an extra special effort today. History son - stop studing VB and go study some history. One cannot appease a tyrant. Richard When we mean to build, We first survey the plot, then draw the model; And when we see the figure of the house, Then must we rate the cost of the execution. William Shakespeare (King Henry IV)
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Nope, Jason , the source is wrong . Check this , from a communication from Pentagon on CNN http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/06/iraq.air.attack/index.html[^] Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
My source says only 12 dropped bombs, but there were many more support aircraft totaling about 100.
Jason Henderson
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articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
this is just enforcement of the no-fly zone, which they are allowed to do. so its not war yet
"When the only tool you have is a hammer, a sore thumb you will have."
Except they were saying on the news that the attacked base was not in the no fly zone Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
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My source says only 12 dropped bombs, but there were many more support aircraft totaling about 100.
Jason Henderson
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articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillIt's possible that were more than 12 , but 100 planes , I doubt , it too much for a normal business like I think that was. Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: I'm not going to say anything about American stupidity because it defies belief but I can't understand how Britain, or more specifically, Blair is being so dumb too Brian Azzopardi wrote: From the American side Britian is just another small country who just happens to follow orders Are you as dumb as you sound or are you just making an extra special effort today. History son - stop studing VB and go study some history. One cannot appease a tyrant. Richard When we mean to build, We first survey the plot, then draw the model; And when we see the figure of the house, Then must we rate the cost of the execution. William Shakespeare (King Henry IV)
Richard Stringer wrote: Are you as dumb as you sound or are you just making an extra special effort today. History son - stop studing VB and go study some history. One cannot appease a tyrant. Eh eh eh , I know that you would come around with a sentence like this :rolleyes: Cheers, Joao Vaz A Programming Language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits -The late giant Edsger Dijkstra 1930 - 2002 And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary. -
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Dave Huff wrote: you stand up straight the popping sound you here is your head coming out of your ass Nope. That was Dubya Bush :) Dave - get an education. Read some history will ya and make some sense. Dave Huff wrote: world should wait until Saddam succeeds in making a nuke The "world" has to do something about Saddam's nukes because the "world" let the situation come to this point. Infact the "world" is America. Don't you Americans understand how much arabs hate you? They really, really do. And for a bloody good reason: your policy in the middle-east is crap. There are some reasons Arabs hate you: - American military personnel on Arab holy soil. Would you like me to piss against the Lincoln Memorial. No? Neither do the arabs. - Overt american support towards Israel. This is one of the worst blunders. Ever. - America is percieved as being an imperialistic power which threatens the local culture and, worse, undermine the local regime. Even more worse, sometimes America support unpopular regimes on the basis of "he's a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch". - American hypocrisy. If america loves democracy so much why does it support corrupt/undemocratic regimes. Pakistan's Musharraf (the one Bush didnt know his name) is suddenly a friend of the US. Why is it America which is being fired at and not Japan or Switzerland or any other country? Please stop and engage your brain before opening your mouth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Brian Azzopardi wrote: Dave - get an education. Read some history will ya and make some sense. You are the one that needs a history lesson. Read a bit about the late 30's and Chamberlain. How the British paid no attention to Churchill. The stupidity of Italy and France ( quite similar to your precesent viewpoints ). Don't just read - study - learn - analyze - see. Don't impress us with your book knowledge of the salient facts - give us an alternative persepective - what would you, from your exalted point of view, do to stabilize the situation? Ask yourself these queations: (1) Does Isael have nukes or WMA's? (2) If their homeland was threatened and they were in danger of being overwhelmed would they use them if they had them. (3) Does Eqypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia have nukes or WMA's? (4) Are they dumb enough to attack Israel militaraly? (5) What happens to the world economy if there is massive conflict in the middle east ? (6) What country has the ability to do anything about the above? (6) Why does the US need the consent of a bunch of pissant countries with a proven record of doing the wrong thing at the wrong time - everytime? RIchard When we mean to build, We first survey the plot, then draw the model; And when we see the figure of the house, Then must we rate the cost of the execution. William Shakespeare (King Henry IV)
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Dave Huff wrote: you stand up straight the popping sound you here is your head coming out of your ass Nope. That was Dubya Bush :) Dave - get an education. Read some history will ya and make some sense. Dave Huff wrote: world should wait until Saddam succeeds in making a nuke The "world" has to do something about Saddam's nukes because the "world" let the situation come to this point. Infact the "world" is America. Don't you Americans understand how much arabs hate you? They really, really do. And for a bloody good reason: your policy in the middle-east is crap. There are some reasons Arabs hate you: - American military personnel on Arab holy soil. Would you like me to piss against the Lincoln Memorial. No? Neither do the arabs. - Overt american support towards Israel. This is one of the worst blunders. Ever. - America is percieved as being an imperialistic power which threatens the local culture and, worse, undermine the local regime. Even more worse, sometimes America support unpopular regimes on the basis of "he's a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch". - American hypocrisy. If america loves democracy so much why does it support corrupt/undemocratic regimes. Pakistan's Musharraf (the one Bush didnt know his name) is suddenly a friend of the US. Why is it America which is being fired at and not Japan or Switzerland or any other country? Please stop and engage your brain before opening your mouth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
You missed Saudi Arabia Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk