How to write requirements for this?
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He seriously asked of I could teach him how to use VS. X|
only two letters away from being an asset
He seems like a good candidate for "Visual Studio for Dummies". At least the "Dummies" part. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
Give the client a list of things that YOU think ought to me accessible for change within the budget of the application and then ask him if he can think of anything else that he ought to be able to change. Usually, the answer is "no".
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
That is really what people seem to want. I am amazed at how far a client will take configurability. I once had to write a markup language that was strikingly similar to HTML because the client didn't want to have to teach HTML to the data entry people but still wanted full control over layout. The sad part is that if I say no someone else will say yes. There really is no way to avoid the ridiculously stupid when they are signing your checks.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
Hmm. Well, we've seen the standard, knee-jerk (maybe sans knee) developer response -- "Customers are always idiots!" -- but the correct response to your posting is: If you're not getting good answers, you're asking bad questions. It isn't the customer's job to talk your language. If you're customer-facing and writing requirements, it's part of your job to understand him.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you.
WRONG ANSWER: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? CORRECT ANSWER: thats fine i have your number on caller ID it diverts you automatically.
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
Make a baseline accounting sum. As in, Ok dude, each configuration change you require will be at $0.10. Then allow client some time to get better prices. When client doesnt (not even from India) and asks you for the application. You compile a color picker control. Then tell him ok, the color picker gives you 16,777,216 color configuarable options. That will be $1,677,720 (you give him 16 free config options) He he
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Make a baseline accounting sum. As in, Ok dude, each configuration change you require will be at $0.10. Then allow client some time to get better prices. When client doesnt (not even from India) and asks you for the application. You compile a color picker control. Then tell him ok, the color picker gives you 16,777,216 color configuarable options. That will be $1,677,720 (you give him 16 free config options) He he
Cripes, he just wants to be able to change the colors. And maybe the background image. He needs a .ini file he can screw around with.
_____________________________ When life hands you marmots, make marmalade.
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Well that's simple. Make a plugin application which loads an assembly. Make one of the default plugins a compiler which automatically adds a reference to your application. Depending on how much you hate them, give them the C++/CLI compiler; if you like them, let them use the C# compiler :-D
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Computafreak wrote:
Well that's simple. Make a plugin application which loads an assembly. Make one of the default plugins a compiler which automatically adds a reference to your application. Depending on how much you hate them, give them the C++/CLI compiler VB compiler; if you like them, let them use the C# compiler
FTFY
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Well that's simple. Make a plugin application which loads an assembly. Make one of the default plugins a compiler which automatically adds a reference to your application. Depending on how much you hate them, give them the C++/CLI compiler; if you like them, let them use the C# compiler :-D
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
I'm glad the weekend is coming.
yeah, and monday is only 2 days away !!! ;P give the client a "real" money estimate for a "full customizable" application; me think he will think twice about asking you to do it.
This signature was proudly tested on animals.
Maximilien wrote:
yeah, and monday is only 2 days away !!! Poke tongue
Monday is the best day of the week, because you know there is a full 7 days until the next Monday!
I hope you realise that hamsters are very creative when it comes to revenge. - Elaine
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I recently got ragged on by a very senior MD (they have lots) for changing the development language from VB to C#, he cannot read C#, has trouble with the syntax. The development team however have not complained.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I'm soo glad my boss can't read C#. He just wants to see a working app. It can be threatening, because come review time, he totally disregards any work done that isn't demonstrable, but it also allows me to demo a shallow prototype, and then get kinky with cool tech like LINQ behind the scenes.
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
That's just a specific instance of the general principle that customers don't know what they want until you first deliver something that's not what they want. :laugh:
Kevin
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I'm soo glad my boss can't read C#. He just wants to see a working app. It can be threatening, because come review time, he totally disregards any work done that isn't demonstrable, but it also allows me to demo a shallow prototype, and then get kinky with cool tech like LINQ behind the scenes.
Brady Kelly wrote:
cool tech like LINQ
Linq is the greatest dissapointment of all the tech in 2005+, I envisaged such things as do select type statement against a List<>/datatable joined. Being able to update a list without the foreach, having a unified result set that I can bind to a list control. Don't get me started on Linq was a POS. I know TSQL very well and would never replace writing procs with Linq so it has almost no application with what I do. As for the boss, he recently asked about WPF/Silverlight wanting to know if it had any application in our shop, I took great glee informing him that these things require a DESIGNER and promptly described the difference. Having said that I am looking into WPF.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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1. Find an old copy of Access 2000 lying around. 2. Hand it to him. 3. Back slowly out of the room. 4. Bill him $10k for delivering *configurable* software. 5. Drink. 6. Bill monthly maintenance fee 7. Repeat step 5.
only two letters away from being an asset
1. Find an old copy of Access 2000 lying around. 2. Hand it to him. 3. Back slowly out of the room. 4. Bill him $10k for delivering *configurable* software. 5. Drink. 6. Bill monthly maintenance fee 7. Repeat Go to step 5.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
1. Find an old copy of Access 2000 lying around. 2. Hand it to him. 3. Back slowly out of the room. 4. Bill him $10k for delivering *configurable* software. 5. Drink. 6. Bill monthly maintenance fee 7. Repeat Go to step 5.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
6. Bill monthly maintenance fee
OOO! Dangerous! The client might start insisting he fix the bugs in Access 2000, and MS couldn't be bothered to do that... :~
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced. This message is made of fully recyclable Zeros and Ones
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I was going through a preliminary design session with a client who kept saying the application has to be configurable. Me: OK, tell me what that means to you? Client: I have to be able to change the application without calling you. Me: That's fine. What things would you like to be able to change? Client: I don't know what I want to change, I just know I want to change it. :omg: :wtf: I'm glad the weekend is coming.
only two letters away from being an asset
I once supported a payroll package that was totally configurable. The package enabled you to modify screens and reports (of course), add columns to standard tables, add new tables and relationships, own programming language (sort of Assembler meets COBOL) to insert code for events, etc. It was way flexible. Give them something like that, huge maintenance income potential.
Bob Emmett
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Brady Kelly wrote:
cool tech like LINQ
Linq is the greatest dissapointment of all the tech in 2005+, I envisaged such things as do select type statement against a List<>/datatable joined. Being able to update a list without the foreach, having a unified result set that I can bind to a list control. Don't get me started on Linq was a POS. I know TSQL very well and would never replace writing procs with Linq so it has almost no application with what I do. As for the boss, he recently asked about WPF/Silverlight wanting to know if it had any application in our shop, I took great glee informing him that these things require a DESIGNER and promptly described the difference. Having said that I am looking into WPF.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Be prepared to tear out a lot of hair :P Its great when it's working, but when it isn't, XAML is the worst thing in the world to debug. And if you want your applications to look decent, yes, definitely get a designer.
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He seriously asked of I could teach him how to use VS. X|
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
teach him how to use VS
THAT comes up waaaay too often in my experience. It's surprising and amazing and there's probably a lot you can say on the subject. The best answer to give to a question like that is an emphatic, authoritative and resounding NO. Nothing more- just no. And add in a dramatic pause before you deliver the pearl of wisdom.
<>< :: have the courage to use your own reason
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Brady Kelly wrote:
cool tech like LINQ
Linq is the greatest dissapointment of all the tech in 2005+, I envisaged such things as do select type statement against a List<>/datatable joined. Being able to update a list without the foreach, having a unified result set that I can bind to a list control. Don't get me started on Linq was a POS. I know TSQL very well and would never replace writing procs with Linq so it has almost no application with what I do. As for the boss, he recently asked about WPF/Silverlight wanting to know if it had any application in our shop, I took great glee informing him that these things require a DESIGNER and promptly described the difference. Having said that I am looking into WPF.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
No offense, but you should spend a bit more time with LINQ before making these statements. LINQ can do everything you "envisaged" and then so MUCH more. I can't tell you the last time I wrote a for each statement. I recommend Ratz's "Pro LINQ" book to learn about the extension methods that drive LINQ. I don't ever use the "sql like syntax" of LINQ, instead learn to use the extension methods themselves and the clouds will part. LINQ really is that cool. Secondly, we have written many production applications (line of business) with Silverlight and WPF and used a designer on very few of them. There are plenty of places to get some nice-looking XAML templates.
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Just sell him a copy of Visual Studio. That way he can configure things as he pleases.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Exactly, give him a price for the source code and developer's guide. If they don't have the knowledge or resources to develop, point them to some books, codeproject.com, and some good resources to put together a development box. Don't forget to give them a cost breakdown for you to do changes, they will probably need it.
