Am I a programming snob?
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
Yes, I think you probably are. If you would like to see an example of someone who has excellent credentials and is very comfortable with VB and somewhat intimidated by C#, check out Julia Lerman and her book "Programming Entity Framework". Julia states herself that she has not done much with C# and does most of her work in VB. Her book is an excellent reference source and I find her writing quite engaging and very concise. As for my programming 'chops', I have been programming for 40 years and got my degree before they had a Computer Science department at most universities. We all took 'math classes'. I have migrated from Cobol and Fortran to Basic, C, C++, VB, C# with many asides along the way. My first commercial program was hand coded in hexadecimal. I currently do most of my work in C++ and VB with forays in to C# when I find it necessary. The reason for VB is that is what the customer wants. VB and C# are the same language. You only have to pay your 'Sin' tax to convert between the two. The real worth of a programmer is in their ability to abstract the problem in to logical constructs independent of the language toolset they are accustomed to. I think if you delve a little deeper you might find some gems in the rough scattered among those VB programmers you find littering your path.
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
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I knew this was going to spark a flood of conversations but that's good. I agree with a lot of what people are saying. The actual languages aren't really that different. The problem I guess is what was said in that article. I have found VB programmers, frequently out of inexperience, don't handle the 'what if' to well. While that's changing with VB.Net, it's still true. For instance - assigning a string to a number and having the language take care of it. I completely agree that there are really good VB/VB.Net programmers out there. There's no way to say it politically correct so I'll just say it - I've seen good programmers and bad programmers using either language. I guess because there's a lot more VB programmers who don't have formal training (whether it be college or work training) there is a lot of bad code out there. Yes I realize there's lot of bad C/C++/C# but it doesn't seem a prevelant. Some of it has to do with the fact the language (VB) handles lots of stuff for you so I've seen lots of code where a programmer will do something and the language will handle conversions. Let's just hope it's what you intended. Let me give you another example: for the position we are looking for, we interviewed a guy who seemed pretty good. My boss asked him for the most complicated code he had written so I could review it. (he was a little light on the .Net but had done lots of Access and SQL which are also what we needed.) What he sent was about 10 routines that were in VB.Net modules even though they would have been very easily put in a class. I didn't even know what a module was and had to go look it up. To me that says he doesn't really understand the concept of OO. So I guess it's not the actual languages, it's the personality of the developer. C# attracts more technical 'geeky' people. VB.Net are less technical but get the job done; usually quickly. So having said that, I'm sure the flames and the comment wars are going to start. J.
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
C#? C'mon, you're all a bunch of fluff puppies and sissies in my book!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Hmm... how many VB programmers have heard of design patterns?
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Please no, just don't go there - the combination of VB and design patterns is enough to make me completely lose my coffee this morning!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
The issue that I've found isn't that C# programmers are better than VB.NET programmers... The issue, I think, is that VB.NET has been a lightning rod for the old VBA crowd. Generally, people stick with the syntax they're familiar with... C/Pascal programmers moved up the C-style tree to C#... QBasic/COBOL programmers moved up their tree to VB.NET. There's really nothing wrong with either branch, as they suit their purposes. The trick is that the latter set has always been seen as more accessible to the people who are computer literate, but lack the mindset of a real programmer. Nowadays, people learn Excel or Access really well, then start dabbling in macros, then figure they can do fancier things in VBA. Now, VBA may have some of the features of an object-oriented language, but I think most people would agree that it doesn't really encourage good programming practices. Those kinds of people are likely to give VB.NET a bad reputation when they decide to try something a little shinier. On the other hand, C-style syntax isn't used in office backends, and isn't nearly as attractive to beginning programmers... So only the people really dedicated to the craft are likely to try it. But hey... You see a lot of bad VB.NET programmers, you start to think all of them are like that... It's human nature. There are great VB.NET programmers and horrible C# programmers, but we judge things on majorities. Me... I started in IBM Basic in '84 and followed the COBOL-style languages right up to VB.NET... Dabbled in Turbo C back in the day, but didn't like it... Wasn't until a few years ago that I hopped the fence over to C# and stayed there. Now if only C# had "With" blocks... We're getting optional parameters in the next version :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
A snob? No, I don't think so. Real programming snobs use Lisp and don't even consider you C#/VB people programmers.
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
Yes, welcome to the club. I would (jokingly) say that 80% of C# developers are superior to 80% of VB.net developers. But seriously, you need to take each individual as an individual. You don't want to pass on an excellent VB.net dev who could pick up C# quickly for an inferior C# dev. I suggest sticking with C# for new projects if only due to the perceived superiority of the language and its practitioners. You'll attract a better class of candidate. :-D
jbradshaw wrote:
we are in the process of hiring a programmer
Anywhere near Phoenix?
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
jbradshaw wrote:
I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified?
Yes. But then again, a Logo[^] programmer is better. Heck. Someone who doesn't know programming is a better programmer!!!
jbradshaw wrote:
Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net.
Hire a Turtle instead. You won't have to rewrite the code. Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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C#? C'mon, you're all a bunch of fluff puppies and sissies in my book!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
C'mon, you're all a bunch of fluff puppies and sissies in my book!
I do declare, I must reflect upon that! ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
I have a similar background and to you though I don't have the BS in CS (which I definitely do not think is any kind of indication of programming "chops" judging from what I've seen coming out of that but that's another discussion entirely). :) I think the majority of c# adopters come from the c++ world in which case the inherently have more experience with deeper level stuff. The vb.net only developers probably come from a) the vb6 world or b) they are new programmers just starting out. Hence on average you are correct. That being said there is so little difference in the .net world between c# and vb.net I wouldn't worry too much about what technology you use, any experience developer worth hiring who hasn't already got their feet wet on the other side could do so quite quickly. Do new projects in c# or vb.net, there's no real difference any more.
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
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I am a developer who has been developing software for over 20 years. I currently work mostly in C# and ASP.Net with some VB.Net and SQL. I have a BS in CS. So I've got programming chops. My question - I usually think more highly of a C# programmer than a VB.Net programmer. Is that justified? I think it comes from seeing 'programmers' who had used VB6 and find they don't know anything. Are C# programmers 'better' (more experienced/better coders/more thorough) than VB.Net programmers. It almost seems like C# are the more technical of the bunch. Another reason for asking is that we are in the process of hiring a programmer and have gotten almost nobody with C# but a lot with VB.Net. Should I do all new projects in VB.Net so somebody can take them over (I'm the only developer at the moment). Flames won't be appreciated so please don't bother.... TIA - Jeff
I have not read everyone's answers, but today I'd say no. If you asked me 5 years ago, I would have thought C# better. Maybe it's me but it just seemed like C# back then was more robust and you could do more with it. Now the languages are pretty much the same as are libraries and such. I had a college professor that had us do the same program in 4 languages including non OOP languages. The idea was that if you understand the logic, it's just learning the syntax of each language. Like curly braces and semi-colons in C# versus what I call the "nakedness" of VB. I think you just have to look at overall experience, and what projects they actually worked on. Maybe they are excellent C# programmers but the company had a standard of VB--something else to consider.
Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]
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Jim Crafton wrote:
C'mon, you're all a bunch of fluff puppies and sissies in my book!
I do declare, I must reflect upon that! ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
var, methinks he be a scurvy dog!Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
I have to dig at this a bit, would you expect this to apply to new programmers who have learned VB.net without a background in VB6?
I think what this is suggesting is that new programmers with an enthusiasm for programming will tend to gravitate towards C#. So what you are left with is that the new programmers who learn VB.net tend to be those with less enthusiasm for programming. Yes, of course there will be some enthusiastic new programmers who will learn VB.net, but more go for C#. It's just about trends, not hard and fast rules.
Simon