Corruption of 'English' as she is spoke
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I had a mate at Uni, here in Sweden, a totally native Swede, who spent a couple of school years in the US somewhere around the age of 16-17. He excelled at English/American grammar compared to his native class mates in the US. He got the best grades in his class in all language related areas during his two years there. "They really, really, had no clue." His words.
-- Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
If you ask him, he'll probably tell you that his Swedish was awful, until he started seriously studying English. It usually works that way. When people ask me for general help on improving their English grammar, I tell them to learn Italian.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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'then/than' - "12 is bigger THEN 10." (:mad:) "I don't recall having seen a native speaker make that mistake" ( :laugh: ) You're joking, right? Then/than, here/hear, your/you're, there/their/they're, "I would of" vs. "I would have" and misuse of possessive apostrophes are my biggest pet hates, and it is very surprising, irrespective of age, how many people just have no clue whatsoever about these things. I correct people's ineffective use of English way too often. A self-certified grammar Nazi, that's me :) I don't understand how people can simply not care about incorrect spellings, conjugations or poor use of grammar. It drives me nuts, but most people couldn't care less. Another thing we can blame on Microsoft - spell-checker. :laugh:
NickHighIQ wrote:
here/hear, your/you're, there/their/they're, "I would of" vs. "I would have" and misuse of possessive apostrophes
I've noted all of those a metaphorical million times. Maybe I'm just blindspotting the then/than thing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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If you ask him, he'll probably tell you that his Swedish was awful, until he started seriously studying English. It usually works that way. When people ask me for general help on improving their English grammar, I tell them to learn Italian.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
he'll probably tell you that his Swedish was awful, until he started seriously studying English
:) I bet he wouldn't say that. His Swedish was perfect. As the language itself, of course... ;) And no, it's nowhere near the jibberish that flows out of the Swedish chef[^] ...
-- Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
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Mark Wallace wrote:
he'll probably tell you that his Swedish was awful, until he started seriously studying English
:) I bet he wouldn't say that. His Swedish was perfect. As the language itself, of course... ;) And no, it's nowhere near the jibberish that flows out of the Swedish chef[^] ...
-- Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
Johann Gerell wrote:
And no, it's nowhere near the jibberish that flows out of the Swedish chef[^] ...
??? You mean that's not real Swedish!?! Another fantasy destroyed...
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark Wallace wrote:
he'll probably tell you that his Swedish was awful, until he started seriously studying English
:) I bet he wouldn't say that. His Swedish was perfect. As the language itself, of course... ;) And no, it's nowhere near the jibberish that flows out of the Swedish chef[^] ...
-- Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
Johann Gerell wrote:
Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
Damn! I've been trying to remember who said that for weeks!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I just read one of the entries in Raymond Chens' excellent 'The Old New Thing' blog. I was directed there from a thread in the C# forum and it has been some time since I last read any of them although I used to do so quite frequently. If this was there on my previous visits I never noticed it. In the header I noticed this:
not actually to establish a blogging point where individuals can enrich their learns on facilitating and leveraging .NET-related activities most effectively
Now, in fairness, the phrase is set up as a link, the content of which explains how it came to be worded as it is. So I guess that it is tongue in cheek but if I were not aware of the excellence of his writings and I noticed this on my first ever opening of one of the articles I might well have moved on without reading further. As one of the comments to the linked article says:
On the plus side, you know just from the first page of the site that it won't contain anything of value.
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
I am a Canadian in Ireland and in all the sports and evening news reports from both Ireland and the UK I keep hearing a particual phrase that drives me insane. In sports the phrsae is typically: "this games is really hotting up" or In news: "the debate hotted up" This is from well educated national and private broadcasters... But when I, tongue in cheak, say "this game is colding down" they look at me as though I have too heads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S: If you are confused by this post, the correct term is "heating up" and "cooling down" :(
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I just read one of the entries in Raymond Chens' excellent 'The Old New Thing' blog. I was directed there from a thread in the C# forum and it has been some time since I last read any of them although I used to do so quite frequently. If this was there on my previous visits I never noticed it. In the header I noticed this:
not actually to establish a blogging point where individuals can enrich their learns on facilitating and leveraging .NET-related activities most effectively
Now, in fairness, the phrase is set up as a link, the content of which explains how it came to be worded as it is. So I guess that it is tongue in cheek but if I were not aware of the excellence of his writings and I noticed this on my first ever opening of one of the articles I might well have moved on without reading further. As one of the comments to the linked article says:
On the plus side, you know just from the first page of the site that it won't contain anything of value.
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
It's not just bad phrases; the use of wrongly placed punctuation can be just as bad. It seems to me that the most difficult piece of punctuation that the majority of English speaking people do not understand is how to use the humble apostrophe. Not even my daughter's teachers know how to use it. There is simply no hope for the English speaking world that does not understand where to correctly put an apostrophe in a sentance. I wouldn't mind if the rules of use were difficult, but they're not. See these examples: http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/examples_1.htm[^]
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I am a Canadian in Ireland and in all the sports and evening news reports from both Ireland and the UK I keep hearing a particual phrase that drives me insane. In sports the phrsae is typically: "this games is really hotting up" or In news: "the debate hotted up" This is from well educated national and private broadcasters... But when I, tongue in cheak, say "this game is colding down" they look at me as though I have too heads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S: If you are confused by this post, the correct term is "heating up" and "cooling down" :(
"they look at me as though I have too heads." Oh dear! ;P
Vincent www.pub-olympics.com
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For me its not just sites, but also Books, Adverts (ie, Posters/Flyers/Banners, etc) and etc. If I come across GLARING mis-use of Her Majesties English, I tend to just disregard whatever it is that I'm being exposed to (despite my own slight disability with proper grammar). I even find the use of 'color' over 'colour' somewhat grating; alas, I have had to learn to live with that one (primarily because EVERY programming language I can think of goes there!). Other pet hates: * 'One Time' - "I saw this guy at the shops, ONE TIME..." * 'then/than' - "12 is bigger THEN 10." * 'I was Like' - "And I was like, 'Oh My God'..." * 'Defense' - Its actually DEFENCE * 'Aluminum' - what happened to the 'i'?? ALUMINIUM * and of course the pronunciation of abbreviation like LOL ('loll') or ROFLMAO (Roffel-mao) Jesus Christ, even the spell-checker here at Uni is against me! It actually recognises LOL and ROFLMAO, while telling me that 'recognise' is wrong! - now I'm annoyed, so I will stop here. I completely understand that all Language is in a constant state of evolution; this evolution is typically the result of interacting with other languages/cultures and the need to increase the level of clarity within communication. While the changes in spelling are understandable (even if I do not approve) my problem is that the more recent evolutions in 'bastardised English' are introducing ambiguity into the language (eg, 'You aint got shit coming' does that mean I'm not getting shit or I am getting shit? Or 'This is better THEN that' - if that like an If-Then condition or are they just saying then when they mean THAN?). But at the end of the day, its language and culture - so its a case of adapt or die!
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Henry Minute wrote:
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
...an integrated suite of server capabilities that can help improve organizational effectiveness by providing comprehensive content management and enterprise search, accelerating shared business processes, and facilitating information-sharing across boundaries for better business insight.
... they have even repeated the same statements from the previous version of the same application ...
Reuse! Buy If You Can! Build If You Must
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I just read one of the entries in Raymond Chens' excellent 'The Old New Thing' blog. I was directed there from a thread in the C# forum and it has been some time since I last read any of them although I used to do so quite frequently. If this was there on my previous visits I never noticed it. In the header I noticed this:
not actually to establish a blogging point where individuals can enrich their learns on facilitating and leveraging .NET-related activities most effectively
Now, in fairness, the phrase is set up as a link, the content of which explains how it came to be worded as it is. So I guess that it is tongue in cheek but if I were not aware of the excellence of his writings and I noticed this on my first ever opening of one of the articles I might well have moved on without reading further. As one of the comments to the linked article says:
On the plus side, you know just from the first page of the site that it won't contain anything of value.
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
One thing that bugs me and that I have seen come up more and more frequently is the use of a plural verb when referring to a singular entity, such as a corporation. This seems to be an Australian thing (especially prevalent on the Sitepoint.com site), but it's apparently spreading. For example, "Microsoft are going to ..." or "Google have ..." rather than "Microsoft is going to ..." or "Google has..." Strangely enough, these writers will treat certain corporate names as plural, but others as singular. I often see in the same sentence something to the effect of "Microsoft have... while Google has..."
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For me its not just sites, but also Books, Adverts (ie, Posters/Flyers/Banners, etc) and etc. If I come across GLARING mis-use of Her Majesties English, I tend to just disregard whatever it is that I'm being exposed to (despite my own slight disability with proper grammar). I even find the use of 'color' over 'colour' somewhat grating; alas, I have had to learn to live with that one (primarily because EVERY programming language I can think of goes there!). Other pet hates: * 'One Time' - "I saw this guy at the shops, ONE TIME..." * 'then/than' - "12 is bigger THEN 10." * 'I was Like' - "And I was like, 'Oh My God'..." * 'Defense' - Its actually DEFENCE * 'Aluminum' - what happened to the 'i'?? ALUMINIUM * and of course the pronunciation of abbreviation like LOL ('loll') or ROFLMAO (Roffel-mao) Jesus Christ, even the spell-checker here at Uni is against me! It actually recognises LOL and ROFLMAO, while telling me that 'recognise' is wrong! - now I'm annoyed, so I will stop here. I completely understand that all Language is in a constant state of evolution; this evolution is typically the result of interacting with other languages/cultures and the need to increase the level of clarity within communication. While the changes in spelling are understandable (even if I do not approve) my problem is that the more recent evolutions in 'bastardised English' are introducing ambiguity into the language (eg, 'You aint got shit coming' does that mean I'm not getting shit or I am getting shit? Or 'This is better THEN that' - if that like an If-Then condition or are they just saying then when they mean THAN?). But at the end of the day, its language and culture - so its a case of adapt or die!
There are two new phrases here in the states that drive me crazy, ready for this? "These ones" If you are at a store looking for a product, the sales person may say "How about these ones?" It either has to be "This one" or "Theses", ugh it drives me crazy! Now for number two, sorry but I really don't know how to spell it. "Yous guys'", pronounced; Yous guyses. Every time I go to a restaurant, the waiter or waitress will say, "Hi, I will be yous guyses server". Are we deliberately trying to destroy the English language?
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I just read one of the entries in Raymond Chens' excellent 'The Old New Thing' blog. I was directed there from a thread in the C# forum and it has been some time since I last read any of them although I used to do so quite frequently. If this was there on my previous visits I never noticed it. In the header I noticed this:
not actually to establish a blogging point where individuals can enrich their learns on facilitating and leveraging .NET-related activities most effectively
Now, in fairness, the phrase is set up as a link, the content of which explains how it came to be worded as it is. So I guess that it is tongue in cheek but if I were not aware of the excellence of his writings and I noticed this on my first ever opening of one of the articles I might well have moved on without reading further. As one of the comments to the linked article says:
On the plus side, you know just from the first page of the site that it won't contain anything of value.
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
An expression that has been bugging me of late: "I could care less" As far as i am aware the phrase should read "I Couldn't care less", thus suggesting that you care so little that it would not be possible to reduce the amount you care any further. To say "I Could care less" means the amount you care is somewhere in the range 0 < x <= Max So, therefore, it encompasses REALLY caring all the way to do comparing a negligible amount whilst NEVER meaning "I don't care" as is intended
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There are two new phrases here in the states that drive me crazy, ready for this? "These ones" If you are at a store looking for a product, the sales person may say "How about these ones?" It either has to be "This one" or "Theses", ugh it drives me crazy! Now for number two, sorry but I really don't know how to spell it. "Yous guys'", pronounced; Yous guyses. Every time I go to a restaurant, the waiter or waitress will say, "Hi, I will be yous guyses server". Are we deliberately trying to destroy the English language?
For the record it's "You's guys". :laugh: You must have recently spent some time on the East coast of the US near Philadelphia or New York. I've been around the states a bit and never heard it said anywhere else. Having grown up 20 miles outside of Philly, it was part of almost every conversation I ever had until someone (of French origin) pointed out that it was difficult to understand. I never thought about it because I grew up saying it. Some others from this area that would drive a fan of proper use of the language completely crazy: Jeet? = Did you eat? Nah, jew? = No, I haven't, have you? (Sadly I learned this was something that people outside of Philly found funny while attending my first Seder meal with my new Jewish girlfriend. Her father had a a book of Philly-isms and knew exactly how the conversation would go. He lured me into the answer given above. I was mortified.) Whadedo? = What did he do? Downashore. = Down the shore. (referring to the New Jersey shore towns between Atlantic City and Cape May, anything north of that doesn't count as downashore.) There are more but I really should get back to work. I believe there is a published book that goes into more detail on the subject for anyone interested.
Mike Devenney
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For the record it's "You's guys". :laugh: You must have recently spent some time on the East coast of the US near Philadelphia or New York. I've been around the states a bit and never heard it said anywhere else. Having grown up 20 miles outside of Philly, it was part of almost every conversation I ever had until someone (of French origin) pointed out that it was difficult to understand. I never thought about it because I grew up saying it. Some others from this area that would drive a fan of proper use of the language completely crazy: Jeet? = Did you eat? Nah, jew? = No, I haven't, have you? (Sadly I learned this was something that people outside of Philly found funny while attending my first Seder meal with my new Jewish girlfriend. Her father had a a book of Philly-isms and knew exactly how the conversation would go. He lured me into the answer given above. I was mortified.) Whadedo? = What did he do? Downashore. = Down the shore. (referring to the New Jersey shore towns between Atlantic City and Cape May, anything north of that doesn't count as downashore.) There are more but I really should get back to work. I believe there is a published book that goes into more detail on the subject for anyone interested.
Mike Devenney
Actually, I lived most of my life on Long Island. Born and raised. I moved to Arizona two years ago and that's why I am amazed at how bad the language is out here. I do know all of the slang words you mentioned, but what gets me is there not saying "You's guys", there saying "You's guyses". Guys is already plural so why do they add "es" to the end? Since I moved out here, I have been corrected many times on... Tawk = talk Shawt = short And many other east coast slangs. But still, "these ones"? I don't get it, the only way you can say these ones is if you have more than one, 1. I have even heard them use this expression on the news of all places. Well, I'd like to tawk some more but time is shawt.
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Actually, I lived most of my life on Long Island. Born and raised. I moved to Arizona two years ago and that's why I am amazed at how bad the language is out here. I do know all of the slang words you mentioned, but what gets me is there not saying "You's guys", there saying "You's guyses". Guys is already plural so why do they add "es" to the end? Since I moved out here, I have been corrected many times on... Tawk = talk Shawt = short And many other east coast slangs. But still, "these ones"? I don't get it, the only way you can say these ones is if you have more than one, 1. I have even heard them use this expression on the news of all places. Well, I'd like to tawk some more but time is shawt.
Wow... says something about the brain being conditioned. I misread you's guyses as just you's guys. Guess the mind begins to translate automagically after a while. :laugh: That said I think I know where they're going with that. In an effort to make a plural into a possesive plural they added 'es'. Incorrect as it is I can still follow the logic... which must be ironic somehow but my mind has bent too far for one day to describe exactly how so I'm bowing out here. :)
Mike Devenney
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'then/than' - "12 is bigger THEN 10." (:mad:) "I don't recall having seen a native speaker make that mistake" ( :laugh: ) You're joking, right? Then/than, here/hear, your/you're, there/their/they're, "I would of" vs. "I would have" and misuse of possessive apostrophes are my biggest pet hates, and it is very surprising, irrespective of age, how many people just have no clue whatsoever about these things. I correct people's ineffective use of English way too often. A self-certified grammar Nazi, that's me :) I don't understand how people can simply not care about incorrect spellings, conjugations or poor use of grammar. It drives me nuts, but most people couldn't care less. Another thing we can blame on Microsoft - spell-checker. :laugh:
NickHighIQ wrote:
It drives me nuts, but most people couldn't care less.
While we're on the subject, it frustrates me when people use the phrase "[I] could care less". Now wait a minute here - if you CAN care less, that means you have at least a little care for the subject at hand, so doesn't that completely invalidate the intent of the statement?
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I just read one of the entries in Raymond Chens' excellent 'The Old New Thing' blog. I was directed there from a thread in the C# forum and it has been some time since I last read any of them although I used to do so quite frequently. If this was there on my previous visits I never noticed it. In the header I noticed this:
not actually to establish a blogging point where individuals can enrich their learns on facilitating and leveraging .NET-related activities most effectively
Now, in fairness, the phrase is set up as a link, the content of which explains how it came to be worded as it is. So I guess that it is tongue in cheek but if I were not aware of the excellence of his writings and I noticed this on my first ever opening of one of the articles I might well have moved on without reading further. As one of the comments to the linked article says:
On the plus side, you know just from the first page of the site that it won't contain anything of value.
Are there any sites that have turned you off, simply because of a phrase in the first few lines, rather than eye-bleedingly bad design?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Oh Henry, you have opened up my can of pet peeves. Fortunately, here on CodeProject, the writing (for the most part) is of good quality. Very few spelling/typing or grammar errors. I would expect a forum like this to have well educated people writing. My local newspaper (online version), on the other hand, there are too many people who can type faster than they think. This leaves a lot of typos; where, sometimes their misspellings give the idea a whole new meaning. If bloggers would take the time to edit their entries and give more attention to the readers, then their message/idea would be meaningful. The language that we use is a contract between the writer and the reader. If that cannot be honored by the writer, then the reader has a right to reject what the writer is saying. Would it be too difficult for the writer to run his prose through a spell checker before submitting it to a blog? If I am unsure, then I write it up in MS Word (like this entry). I feel embarrassed by displaying something with such dumb errors. As for LOL or ROFL, these are just the internet short hand. I can get used to it. BTW, I do prefer spelling it out. (Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, yeah I know.)
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Oh Henry, you have opened up my can of pet peeves. Fortunately, here on CodeProject, the writing (for the most part) is of good quality. Very few spelling/typing or grammar errors. I would expect a forum like this to have well educated people writing. My local newspaper (online version), on the other hand, there are too many people who can type faster than they think. This leaves a lot of typos; where, sometimes their misspellings give the idea a whole new meaning. If bloggers would take the time to edit their entries and give more attention to the readers, then their message/idea would be meaningful. The language that we use is a contract between the writer and the reader. If that cannot be honored by the writer, then the reader has a right to reject what the writer is saying. Would it be too difficult for the writer to run his prose through a spell checker before submitting it to a blog? If I am unsure, then I write it up in MS Word (like this entry). I feel embarrassed by displaying something with such dumb errors. As for LOL or ROFL, these are just the internet short hand. I can get used to it. BTW, I do prefer spelling it out. (Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, yeah I know.)