"GUI" developers [modified]
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
A developer should be able to cobble together a one-click build process. That almost requires some basic command line skills.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
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He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here :-D
TheIndian wrote:
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here
Did you explain that colleague that the problem seems to exist between the chair and the keyboard? (Java *itself* is a problem, but that's another aspect of the argument).
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
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TheIndian wrote:
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here
Did you explain that colleague that the problem seems to exist between the chair and the keyboard? (Java *itself* is a problem, but that's another aspect of the argument).
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Did you explain
I dont dare explain him anything :-D
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I did a phone interview for a job yesterday, and I got the impression that the guy has never had to do an serious work at the DOS prompt. The further away from the 80's you get, the less likely you'll find programmers that are even aware that they can use the command prompt for things.
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Yes.
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Whilst in a purist world you might be right and even in a world where only the technically competent were allowed to do jobs that you know require technical competence. You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser. And even worse than that, that joe public thinks these are the "real" developers because when they ask what they are working on they get told things they can actually understand.
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pseudonym67 wrote:
there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser.
You forgot the quotes around "programmers". :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here :-D
Ah yes typecasting. I once worked with someone who put this in our java codebase:
String s = new Object;
Checked it in, broke the build, and then claimed complete lack of knowledge as to why things might not be compiling anymore. Sigh.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Just wanted to thank you for the fingerprints I now have all over my screen from trying to kill your profile bug. :doh:
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Hear hear! I've said it before and I'll say it again -- but I don't have to this time because you said it. There are certain tasks where a GUI excels and others where a command line excels -- use the right tool for the right job. On my last job I received a certain amount of ridicule because I spent so much time at the DOS prompt. I told people I was looking at the raw matrix.
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Michael Schubert wrote:
I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
Personally, I think anyone who calls themselves a developer should have at least one decent sized app written in assembly language--by that, I mean, pick an emulator of your choice that targets a GameBoy, C64, Apple, or some other similar ancient machine, and write something, so you learn about hardware, registers, stacks, memory management, etc. But then again, that's just me and my weird way of looking at things. [edit]I think my point is made by the forum post below "why .net devs did that" :doh: [/edit] Marc
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Sure! I think when someone is learning programing he should try to use low tech tools such as notepad and command line tools.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I think when someone is learning programing he should try to use low tech tools such as notepad...
Back when I was using VC++ 1.x, it had no resource editor, thus I made my first few GUI programs using Notepad to create/modify the resource file. I was later introduced to Borland's Resource Editor.
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agreed. Excepting penguins I doubt there's more than a handful of people under the age of 20 with non-trivial levels of commandline skills. Win95 removed any need for it from the average PC user.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
Win95 removed any need for it from the average PC user
Hah! You are totally wrong there: "Format c:" and "fdisk" were things you had to know how to do to work with win95, and superb command line skills were needed to get a boot disk that could see the CD (and the mouse) for reinstall when it all went Pete Tong! :laugh:
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Dan Neely wrote:
Win95 removed any need for it from the average PC user
Hah! You are totally wrong there: "Format c:" and "fdisk" were things you had to know how to do to work with win95, and superb command line skills were needed to get a boot disk that could see the CD (and the mouse) for reinstall when it all went Pete Tong! :laugh:
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced. This message is made of fully recyclable Zeros and Ones "Rumour has it that if you play Microsoft CDs backwards you will hear Satanic messages.Worse still, is that if you play them forwards they will install Windows"
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Sure! I think when someone is learning programing he should try to use low tech tools such as notepad and command line tools.
I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but yeah, I agree. When you have to go through the "crap", you learn two valuable lessons: 1) You know how it works under the hood, thus gaining an understanding of how it works. Invaluable when you end up in situations like the "GUI" developer. You don't have to yank someone else to get it done - you can do it yourself. 2) You get to learn early on that programming can be tedious. There will be days when you wish you had picked another job. Learning the hard way gives you a higher tolerance threshold.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but yeah, I agree. When you have to go through the "crap", you learn two valuable lessons: 1) You know how it works under the hood, thus gaining an understanding of how it works. Invaluable when you end up in situations like the "GUI" developer. You don't have to yank someone else to get it done - you can do it yourself. 2) You get to learn early on that programming can be tedious. There will be days when you wish you had picked another job. Learning the hard way gives you a higher tolerance threshold.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
sarcastic
No, I am very serious. Most of the times I try to learn new things doing it the old fashioned way. I have learned so many things just by writing make files and msbuild files using notepad. Recently I created a Silverlight project from scratch.
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Sure! I think when someone is learning programing he should try to use low tech tools such as notepad and command line tools.
you must be a genius! i bring up notepad using the command prompt and then i keep typing all kings of command in notepad, but alas, nothing is happening what am i doing wrong? i need your help urgently!!!
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Maybe developers should have a mandatory period developing with vi and a CygWin install…and that's it! Or, if they want to start like I did (VAX TPU + VAXset + VAX C/FORTRAN), that'sfine :-)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Maybe developers should have a mandatory period developing with vi and a CygWin install…and that's it! Or, if they want to start like I did (VAX TPU + VAXset + VAX C/FORTRAN), that'sfine :-)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Next I suppose you'll suggest giving your tech writers a set of stone cutting/carving tools and map to the local quarry. :rolleyes:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
No, I was going to give them papyrus reeds so they could make their own paper. Seriously, though - you see the gap between IDE and command-line tools as that large? Interesting.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Maybe developers should have a mandatory period developing with vi and a CygWin install…and that's it! Or, if they want to start like I did (VAX TPU + VAXset + VAX C/FORTRAN), that'sfine :-)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
I, too, learned on DEC equipment. With TECO and EDT, no TPU or vi. It has occurred to me, that if I ever teach I should bring one of my AlphaServers in and have the students Telnet in and try to write something.
