Stupid problem of the week
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You're confusing intent with the bigger picture. Whether he intended to keep the drive is immaterial, the outcome of the situation was the same: customer buys drive, customer returns drive. That's it.
Mike Devenney
Mike Devenney wrote:
Whether he intended to keep the drive is immaterial, the outcome of the situation was the same: customer buys drive, customer returns drive. That's it.
BS - It's his intent that makes it unethical. If he and his ilk didn't do this kind of garbage retailers and manufacturers wouldn't have to build extra profit into their prices and the rest of us pay less.
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Mike Devenney wrote:
Efficient and effective.
Unethical and costs all of us money. The fact that his wife buys stuff there and Walmart makes lots of profits are irrelevant and simple rationalizations that make him feel good about it.
The Code of Hammurabi says an eye for an eye. If it were proven that Wal-Mart were completely ethical in their business practices I would agree. If this were a small mom and pop corner shop we were talking about I would also agree. As Wal-Mart is neither of the two, I say have at it. He's not rationalizing what he is doing, he's just joining in the fun.
Mike Devenney
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Mike Devenney wrote:
Whether he intended to keep the drive is immaterial, the outcome of the situation was the same: customer buys drive, customer returns drive. That's it.
BS - It's his intent that makes it unethical. If he and his ilk didn't do this kind of garbage retailers and manufacturers wouldn't have to build extra profit into their prices and the rest of us pay less.
...and I guess that because the intent behind an occasional lapse of ethics on the part of Wal-Mart usually means lower prices for you, those are given the old "turn a blind eye" treatment?
Mike Devenney
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The Code of Hammurabi says an eye for an eye. If it were proven that Wal-Mart were completely ethical in their business practices I would agree. If this were a small mom and pop corner shop we were talking about I would also agree. As Wal-Mart is neither of the two, I say have at it. He's not rationalizing what he is doing, he's just joining in the fun.
Mike Devenney
Mike Devenney wrote:
The Code of Hammurabi says an eye for an eye.
So? More rationalizations...
Mike Devenney wrote:
If it were proven that Wal-Mart were completely ethical in their business practices I would agree. If this were a small mom and pop corner shop we were talking about I would also agree. As Wal-Mart is neither of the two, I say have at it.
What kind of logic is that? If he wants to protest Walmart's business practices or boycott them... great. Have at it. Acting unethically is a direct reflection on him - not Walmart.
Mike Devenney wrote:
He's not rationalizing what he is doing,
Of course he is...
Mike Devenney wrote:
he's just joining in the fun.
...and raising prices for everyone else. No thanks. X|
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...and I guess that because the intent behind an occasional lapse of ethics on the part of Wal-Mart usually means lower prices for you, those are given the old "turn a blind eye" treatment?
Mike Devenney
Mike Devenney wrote:
..and I guess that because the intent behind an occasional lapse of ethics on the part of Wal-Mart usually means lower prices for you, those are given the old "turn a blind eye" treatment?
Not at all. I normally avoid Walmart because of their lack of ethics. I don't lower myself to their standards.
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So this "Borrowed" item will be added to the pile of other "Borrowed" items and returned to the warehouse. Then they will all be written off as a loss and shipped to the nearest wholesaler. Any guess' who ended up paying for you to "Borrow" that drive? Everyone that shop at Wally World. Jack
When I worked for a mfg that supplied goods to Wal-Mart, our company got charged cost plus a fee for any returns. The customers of W-M pay when items are shoplifted, the manufacturer pays when items are "rented". Tacky would be a complement for crap like this.
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I disagree. I was meticulously careful when using it. I didn't even take the twist ties of the cords. I put everything back in the box exactly the way it was. I'm sure they put it back on the shelf. My wife has probably spent about 10K at the local walmart since it opened 10 years ago and the locally owned places started going out of business. So I don't feel guilty about it at all. I don't regularly do this, but it solved a problem I had, which was to install Win 7 from a purchased DVD to a laptop with no optical drive. I don't think it is a big deal at all. But whatever, wal-mart is a particularly brutal and unscrupulous corporation that makes Billions of dollars in profit. They allow you to return an item with in 30 days, so I returned it. I can't believe you think that returning an item to the f'n wal-mart is unethical or immoral. Give me a break.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I can't believe you think that returning an item to the f'n wal-mart is unethical or immoral. Give me a break.
Returning it is not the problem, they have their policy that allows for returns. Had you purchased it with the "intent" of keeping it and later in the day decided that though it did the job, it really wasn't what you wanted, then all would be well with the world. However, as told by you, this was not your "intent" and that is what makes it "unethical and immoral".
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
My wife has probably spent about 10K at the local walmart since it opened 10 years ago
What difference does this make in this situation? My wife probably spends that much in a single year. Should I be able to "borrow" anything I need because of this, no!
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
But whatever, wal-mart is a particularly brutal and unscrupulous corporation that makes Billions of dollars in profit.
And you think this makes it right? Since they are wrong, we should do wrong? The only break you get from me, is that I'll not waste any more time trying to teach you something you should already know.
Jack Carr
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I can't believe you think that returning an item to the f'n wal-mart is unethical or immoral. Give me a break.
Returning it is not the problem, they have their policy that allows for returns. Had you purchased it with the "intent" of keeping it and later in the day decided that though it did the job, it really wasn't what you wanted, then all would be well with the world. However, as told by you, this was not your "intent" and that is what makes it "unethical and immoral".
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
My wife has probably spent about 10K at the local walmart since it opened 10 years ago
What difference does this make in this situation? My wife probably spends that much in a single year. Should I be able to "borrow" anything I need because of this, no!
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
But whatever, wal-mart is a particularly brutal and unscrupulous corporation that makes Billions of dollars in profit.
And you think this makes it right? Since they are wrong, we should do wrong? The only break you get from me, is that I'll not waste any more time trying to teach you something you should already know.
Jack Carr
My conscience is clear. I don't feel it is unethical to return something to wal-mart, regardless of the intent, if it is in the same condition in which you bought it. Now if I had damaged the product, that would be unethical. Have a good day :)
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Bought an Acer netbook. No optical drive, no big deal, right? Well the netbook doesn't come with a restore CD (why would it there is no optical drive?) Windows 7 backup won't write an ISO or to a network only to writeable optical drive, the Acer software only writes to writable optical drives. You can't easily share an optical drive, daemon tools claims to offer writeable drive emulation but I couldn't find a single tool that I could download that actually would do as advertised. So off to PING. Man oh man turning that sucker into a bootable USB was hard ... the instructions were all wrong. Finally get it running and lo and behold I only have an 8 GB flash drive. Windows 7 takes 9GB then some other files. Getting creative, I disable hibernation saving 2 Gigs (allegedly) and set Windows to delete the page file on shutdown so of course my partitions still take 12GB and won't compress to my drive. This post, of course is a rant (don't try to solve my problem) Computing should be simple, it seems as if every person at every step of the way has conspired to make this process hard! Sure I can buy a USB Dvd writer or a 16GB USB drive (they are about the same price) but WTF. If I would have known ahead of time the true cost of a netbook I would have never bought it and just bought a laptop instead. 50 bucks for the backup, 50 bucks for the 2gig memory stick, sheesh. BTW, Windows 7 is a lot less annoying than Vista. I was going to install XP on this netbook but decided against it after enjoying 7.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
That is nos just in your netbook. Six years ago I got a very good deal on a Compaq tables running Windoww XP. It will ONLY boot from drive C: OR drive Q: which I guess is OK if you hace the (quite expensive) docking station when you try to re-install the system (which I needed to do after a poser outage). But I couldn't find any way to designate my USB drive as Q: The USB drive will boot easily any one of my other systems but NOT the tablet. The end result is that for four years I have had a non-working tablet; and having the reinstallation done by Compaq (or any of their authorized people) would cost more that a good laptop. It isn't even heavy enough to make a good doorstop. Juan Antonio Rodriguez-Sero; juan_ars@hotmail.com Seattle, WA 98133-9110 U. S. A. ------------------------------------------------- All systems look good ... on paper. 1st. Cooper's law
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Yes, but comparing a rabid wolverine gnawing on your face while stabbing you with a fountain pen to Vista is likely to make the wolverine look good, so it isn't exactly that big of a compliment.
+5 and you are now going to be my signature!
ragnaroknrol: Yes, but comparing a rabid wolverine gnawing on your face while stabbing you with a fountain pen to Vista is likely to make the wolverine look good, so it isn't exactly that big of a compliment.
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Bought an Acer netbook. No optical drive, no big deal, right? Well the netbook doesn't come with a restore CD (why would it there is no optical drive?) Windows 7 backup won't write an ISO or to a network only to writeable optical drive, the Acer software only writes to writable optical drives. You can't easily share an optical drive, daemon tools claims to offer writeable drive emulation but I couldn't find a single tool that I could download that actually would do as advertised. So off to PING. Man oh man turning that sucker into a bootable USB was hard ... the instructions were all wrong. Finally get it running and lo and behold I only have an 8 GB flash drive. Windows 7 takes 9GB then some other files. Getting creative, I disable hibernation saving 2 Gigs (allegedly) and set Windows to delete the page file on shutdown so of course my partitions still take 12GB and won't compress to my drive. This post, of course is a rant (don't try to solve my problem) Computing should be simple, it seems as if every person at every step of the way has conspired to make this process hard! Sure I can buy a USB Dvd writer or a 16GB USB drive (they are about the same price) but WTF. If I would have known ahead of time the true cost of a netbook I would have never bought it and just bought a laptop instead. 50 bucks for the backup, 50 bucks for the 2gig memory stick, sheesh. BTW, Windows 7 is a lot less annoying than Vista. I was going to install XP on this netbook but decided against it after enjoying 7.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
This the inherent problem of refining a product. Netbooks are great for what little they are meant to do, but try and do anything beyond that and you're stuck without a headache. No drive? No problem, you don't need it. Oh, you want to create an ISO? No problem, use an emulator. Oh, it odesn't work? No problem, use an external drive. And on and on. I have a colleague who purchased a netbook with a larger drive, Sprint broadband card, extra memory, etc. She uses it during meetings and trips. It works great for her. After all the add-ons it ran about $700. That's the cost of a low end laptop. However, for her use it works great. She knows it's not a "work" machine. You're exactly right, no general non-techy person in their right mind would have been able to follow the list of steps you did. But maybe that's the point. They buy a netbook with XP and that's all the are supposed to use it for. If they want Win7 they buy a laptop or wait for a Win7 netbook. This is why people in our industry always have a hard time defending why general people probably shouldn't purchase a netbook or bargain priced laptop. It's cheap now, but most likely there will be some time in a year or so they will want to do something they had never anticipated. Then they'll come to you and ask why it doesn't work or it's so slow and expect you to fix it. I just purchased an HP dv7t Core i7 for my new development machine. I immediately upgraded it to Win 7 Ultimate and now have multiple VHDs that are used as my main operating systems. I love it. Ran me ~$1,200 at Costco with the extended warranty. Anyway, when my mother-in-law asked for recommendations on a new laptop her only requirements was a big screen and fast. So, I got her the exact same laptop. She asked why don't I just get her a $700 laptop and I told her that this one is big, fast, will be fairly inexpensive and easy to upgrade (SSD or RAM) in the next few years and will do anything she wants. I can't give her that promise with a $700 laptop.
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Bought an Acer netbook. No optical drive, no big deal, right? Well the netbook doesn't come with a restore CD (why would it there is no optical drive?) Windows 7 backup won't write an ISO or to a network only to writeable optical drive, the Acer software only writes to writable optical drives. You can't easily share an optical drive, daemon tools claims to offer writeable drive emulation but I couldn't find a single tool that I could download that actually would do as advertised. So off to PING. Man oh man turning that sucker into a bootable USB was hard ... the instructions were all wrong. Finally get it running and lo and behold I only have an 8 GB flash drive. Windows 7 takes 9GB then some other files. Getting creative, I disable hibernation saving 2 Gigs (allegedly) and set Windows to delete the page file on shutdown so of course my partitions still take 12GB and won't compress to my drive. This post, of course is a rant (don't try to solve my problem) Computing should be simple, it seems as if every person at every step of the way has conspired to make this process hard! Sure I can buy a USB Dvd writer or a 16GB USB drive (they are about the same price) but WTF. If I would have known ahead of time the true cost of a netbook I would have never bought it and just bought a laptop instead. 50 bucks for the backup, 50 bucks for the 2gig memory stick, sheesh. BTW, Windows 7 is a lot less annoying than Vista. I was going to install XP on this netbook but decided against it after enjoying 7.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Our Acer netbooks originally shipped with Windows XP Home. After backing up the original systems to external hdd (bootable TrueImage USB), we installed XP Professional. Mind you, we didn't have an external DVD writer at the time, so no easy way to install XP Pro. Well, had to look up instructions on building a USB drive to install XP from. There were a lot of convoluted steps (including temporarily disabling UAC on Vista to actually build the install image -- running the utility in an Admin CL didn't work for some reason), but it worked. It's moot now that we have a DVD drive for it, but it was an interesting exercise to say the least. :) Flynn
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So this "Borrowed" item will be added to the pile of other "Borrowed" items and returned to the warehouse. Then they will all be written off as a loss and shipped to the nearest wholesaler. Any guess' who ended up paying for you to "Borrow" that drive? Everyone that shop at Wally World. Jack
People who "rent" items drive up the cost for everyone. One of the reasons that Costco's return policy is so liberal is that Costco charges the entire cost back to the vendor regardless of the physical condition. If the vendor wants the item back, the vendor has to go to the individual store and pack it up or pay Costco to do it. Otherwise Costco will either trash the item or sell it to salvage (with no $ going back to the vendor). I ran a company that sold home decorating items to Costco. People would return things up to 12 months after purchase because they changed the color of the room, etc. We stopped selling to Costco because we couldn't make money.
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Bought an Acer netbook. No optical drive, no big deal, right? Well the netbook doesn't come with a restore CD (why would it there is no optical drive?) Windows 7 backup won't write an ISO or to a network only to writeable optical drive, the Acer software only writes to writable optical drives. You can't easily share an optical drive, daemon tools claims to offer writeable drive emulation but I couldn't find a single tool that I could download that actually would do as advertised. So off to PING. Man oh man turning that sucker into a bootable USB was hard ... the instructions were all wrong. Finally get it running and lo and behold I only have an 8 GB flash drive. Windows 7 takes 9GB then some other files. Getting creative, I disable hibernation saving 2 Gigs (allegedly) and set Windows to delete the page file on shutdown so of course my partitions still take 12GB and won't compress to my drive. This post, of course is a rant (don't try to solve my problem) Computing should be simple, it seems as if every person at every step of the way has conspired to make this process hard! Sure I can buy a USB Dvd writer or a 16GB USB drive (they are about the same price) but WTF. If I would have known ahead of time the true cost of a netbook I would have never bought it and just bought a laptop instead. 50 bucks for the backup, 50 bucks for the 2gig memory stick, sheesh. BTW, Windows 7 is a lot less annoying than Vista. I was going to install XP on this netbook but decided against it after enjoying 7.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
If I may provide a bit of perspective - not sure if this will make you feel better or worse, but... (and you asked us not to try to solve the problem so I'm left with an anti-rant :-) ) You're working on a machine that it at least 10x more complex than the modern automobile; perhaps 1000x, depending on what level you're looking at (the processor level is like the event horizon of a black hole, where the laws of physics completely break down, and complexity approaches infinity). And yet people don't usually work on their cars, they take them to an expert, who has all the right tools. And when they do work on their cars, they generally accept: skinned knuckles; parts that have to be hammered into place because they "almost" fit; parts that are different than other parts, and yet they have the same part number; $20 parts that require you to pull the engine completely out of the vehicle to install; parts that require special tools to install; corroded-parts that require a blowtorch and 24-hours soaking in penetrating oil to remove; and on and on. (I once had to replace wheel bearings on my truck, and had to ride my bicycle 5 miles to the auto parts store because I broke a bearing installation tool with the front end of the truck in pieces. Without the tool, I couldn't reassemble the thing - so I was stuck.)
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Bought an Acer netbook. No optical drive, no big deal, right? Well the netbook doesn't come with a restore CD (why would it there is no optical drive?) Windows 7 backup won't write an ISO or to a network only to writeable optical drive, the Acer software only writes to writable optical drives. You can't easily share an optical drive, daemon tools claims to offer writeable drive emulation but I couldn't find a single tool that I could download that actually would do as advertised. So off to PING. Man oh man turning that sucker into a bootable USB was hard ... the instructions were all wrong. Finally get it running and lo and behold I only have an 8 GB flash drive. Windows 7 takes 9GB then some other files. Getting creative, I disable hibernation saving 2 Gigs (allegedly) and set Windows to delete the page file on shutdown so of course my partitions still take 12GB and won't compress to my drive. This post, of course is a rant (don't try to solve my problem) Computing should be simple, it seems as if every person at every step of the way has conspired to make this process hard! Sure I can buy a USB Dvd writer or a 16GB USB drive (they are about the same price) but WTF. If I would have known ahead of time the true cost of a netbook I would have never bought it and just bought a laptop instead. 50 bucks for the backup, 50 bucks for the 2gig memory stick, sheesh. BTW, Windows 7 is a lot less annoying than Vista. I was going to install XP on this netbook but decided against it after enjoying 7.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
I got one of those acer aspire one netbooks. They come with a restore partition. To my surprise when I tried to use it mine crashed and never worked ( the difference is that mine came with xp). So I was force to buy an usb dvd unit ( 50$ ), get a windows disk from some places and use the license sticker on the computer to activate it. Regarding windows 7, it can do backups to network drives, which will be a shadow copy of your windows partition. i did this with our server at the company. In case windows gets to the point beyond repair, I presume that it has some rescue mode which will allow you to write the copy from your nas. Here is the link to a tutorial.. http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081110/windows-7-to-allow-pc-backups-to-network-share/[^] Hope it helps. ;)