50 Best Sci-Fi TV shows of all time
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digital man wrote:
kinar wrote: Just because someone perpetrates evil acts doesn't mean that those people are necesarily evil. That makes no sense.
Since we're on a WWII kick... In 1945, the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, basically obliterating two cities. Why? To end the war and prevent the greater loss of life that would have resulted from a full invasion. Does that make the US an "Evil Empire," like some radicals call us? We did a horrible thing, causing a large amount of pain and suffering for a lot of people, but we did it for what we thought was a good reason. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the act itself was still "evil." History still considers us to be the good guys.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Forgive this cheesy quote but "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few". What the USA did in 1945 prevented millions of more deaths. What they did was merciful and the right thing to do to get Japan to surrender. The USA ddn't start the war, they were pulled into it and did what they had to do to end it. The act was not in any way evil: that is a naive position to take. It would have been inherently more evil not to have used the bombs and to have allowed far more suffereing and a much longer war when knowing that using them could prevent it. Whilst I agree that evil is very hard to quantify I think anyone knows it when they see it. If I do soemthing evil you think I am merely misguided? That is why evil people get away with evil deeds because good people fail to believe that evil really exists.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Evil is a matter of perspective.
Sorry to call bullshit on this! There are *some* cases where "evil" might be a POV. But the ones Dave listed definitely don't fall under that. Under no circumstance does killing millions of innocents fall under anything but evil. It's wrong, no ifs ands or buts about it. Hitler was nuts, possibly a sociopath, but in the end he was just plain wrong. Ditto for Pol Pot, Stalin, and friends. I understand that there's a whole lot of gray area in life, and certainly POV needs to be taken into account, but there's also a point where things are just plain wrong.
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Just to bring in one of Ian's arguments to your claim... Would you consider Harry S Truman, the 33th President of the USA, evil? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki[^] Of course your post mentioned millions and Mr Truman only killed 150,000-250,000 (mostly innocents) in a matter of days so maybe he doesn't qualify as evil? If not, at what point does killing innocents become evil?
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Just to bring in one of Ian's arguments to your claim... Would you consider Harry S Truman, the 33th President of the USA, evil? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki[^] Of course your post mentioned millions and Mr Truman only killed 150,000-250,000 (mostly innocents) in a matter of days so maybe he doesn't qualify as evil? If not, at what point does killing innocents become evil?
No, not in the same sense as someone like a Hitler or Stalin. Was it wrong? Maybe, probably, depends on your POV. Was it a bad thing, sure. Was it evil? I don't think so. Truman's motivations and rationale for the bombing were completely different from Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or any other nut job dictator. For example, AFAIK, there's no evidence that the bombs would have been dropped if the Japanese had surrendered when asked to. Anyway, my general point is that you're comparing apples to oranges.
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
I enjoyed Farscape
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Forgive this cheesy quote but "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few". What the USA did in 1945 prevented millions of more deaths. What they did was merciful and the right thing to do to get Japan to surrender. The USA ddn't start the war, they were pulled into it and did what they had to do to end it. The act was not in any way evil: that is a naive position to take. It would have been inherently more evil not to have used the bombs and to have allowed far more suffereing and a much longer war when knowing that using them could prevent it. Whilst I agree that evil is very hard to quantify I think anyone knows it when they see it. If I do soemthing evil you think I am merely misguided? That is why evil people get away with evil deeds because good people fail to believe that evil really exists.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
You're looking at the motivation, not the act itself. If you ignore the context, dropping nuclear bombs on cities is an "evil" act. If you want to go the cliche route, it was the "Lesser of two evils", in that letting the war continue would have been worse. Being the lesser "evil" isn't the same as not being "evil." But again, "evil" is just a matter of perspective. We slaughter countless animals to feed ourselves. From the animal's perspective, that's pretty clearly "evil." From our perspective, they're just food animals and we're hungry (Ok, except the vegetarians/vegans).
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I enjoyed Farscape
It was on one of the lists. I'm watching season 1 again on Netflix streaming now.
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
Logan's Run rated higher than Firefly. Blasphemy written by the clueless.
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Fireball XL5? Supercar? The Survivors? (okay, that was crap) Sadly there are so many and it is so subjective that it's unlikely that any 2 people would agree what should and should not be on the list.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
digital man wrote: Sadly there are so many and it is so subjective that it's unlikely that any 2 people would agree what should and should not be on the list --- Easy, insert Firefly. Anyone who disagrees doesn't get an opinion afterwards. Then Dr Who, again, any disagreements and we've narrowed it down some more. Although the new series is meh, haven't seen much of the older ones but they look much better. No slo-mo of Kylie Minogue. :P Then a Star Trek/Star Gate series of some sort, Stargate would be my choice, and Atlantis out of them all. I prefer the Star Trek universe, but Stargate did it better. Then BSG (remake). That pretty much covers it all.. Leaving fantasy shows out isn't too much to ask since the poll leaves out the best sci-fi universes anyway. Warhammer40K, Hitchhiker's Guide and Dune would cover some of the best sci-fi there is. Then almost any Assimov book. Some movies have been excellent and they won't be included. This is more a poll of, what is the best out of all the junk on T.V.. :P On a side note, why does Firefly keep getting rated so low? Yes, it ended much too soon and the movie was pathetic, but the show was still pretty decent. Surprisingly so even.
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
My Top 5 would be 1) Heroes 2) ST: TNG 3) Babylon 5 4) Firefly 5) Battlestar Gallactica (new one) Also Caprica is working for me at the moment. Plus given some of the tech they sometimes show and their poor understanding of it I would be tempted to say CSI: NY as well :)
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Forgive this cheesy quote but "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few". What the USA did in 1945 prevented millions of more deaths. What they did was merciful and the right thing to do to get Japan to surrender. The USA ddn't start the war, they were pulled into it and did what they had to do to end it. The act was not in any way evil: that is a naive position to take. It would have been inherently more evil not to have used the bombs and to have allowed far more suffereing and a much longer war when knowing that using them could prevent it. Whilst I agree that evil is very hard to quantify I think anyone knows it when they see it. If I do soemthing evil you think I am merely misguided? That is why evil people get away with evil deeds because good people fail to believe that evil really exists.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
are you saying US is being the good guy by killing thousands of innocent people in those cities and destroyed the life of thousands more with the radioactive side effects? well dats surely evil to me... pure evil... you dont go killing innocent people and call yourself a good guy... are you sure the USA didnt start the war? in face USA and Europe started the war long before dat when they invade Asia countries and made it their own... this is the same as what Japan did... they invade the Asia countries to put them all under one flag... so US and others are as evil as Japan itself if u look at it... u are saying USA bomb the two cities to stop the war... why dont they just bomb the army camp only and leave the innocent people alone... army are meant to go to war and civilians are just civilians... i think they have evil deep down in their heart...
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Well, I can give you my top 5... 1) Babylon 5 2) Firefly 3) ST: DS9 4) Heroes 5) ST: TNG Would probably have Dr. Who on that list, but I haven't seen much of it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Same here Babylon 5 #1 and then ST: TNG, Stargate
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digital man wrote:
kinar wrote: Just because someone perpetrates evil acts doesn't mean that those people are necesarily evil. That makes no sense.
Since we're on a WWII kick... In 1945, the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, basically obliterating two cities. Why? To end the war and prevent the greater loss of life that would have resulted from a full invasion. Does that make the US an "Evil Empire," like some radicals call us? We did a horrible thing, causing a large amount of pain and suffering for a lot of people, but we did it for what we thought was a good reason. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the act itself was still "evil." History still considers us to be the good guys.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Jim Crafton wrote:
Under no circumstance does killing millions of innocents fall under anything but evil.
Sure, killing people is "evil"... Unless you're in a war... Or they're "bad guys"... Or you were protecting yourself... Or they don't worship the same deity... Or they live on the other side of the border... Or they're messing around on your side of the border... Again, I don't know much about Pol Pot, but Hitler THOUGHT he was creating a better world. He thought the ends justified the means, an argument just about every group has taken at one point or another. If the Axis had won WWII, they would be the ones writing the history books, and I bet we would be the "evil" ones.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Well, I can give you my top 5... 1) Babylon 5 2) Firefly 3) ST: DS9 4) Heroes 5) ST: TNG Would probably have Dr. Who on that list, but I haven't seen much of it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I completely agree with Bablyon 5 at the top. That was (IMHO) the best science fiction writing ever to bless television. It had all the character development and attention to details of an epic novel and was a true stroke of genious. J. Michael Straczynski is a god that sadly far too few people worship. And in today's TV market smart writing just can't compete with idiotic content. Sad... so very sad. :sigh:
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
I haven't seen The 4400 on anyone's list. I wasn't sure about this show at first but ended up really getting into it - kind of a take on X-Men/Heros, but done from an interesting perspective. The approach they took seemed more "real" - can't really explain it without giving away interesting parts of the plot to those who haven't seen it. Anyone has have thoughts on the 4400? My top (in no particular order) BSG STTNG The 4400 ReGenesis (borderline Sci-Fi) Other decent series: Odyssey 5 Taken Charlie Jade The Dead Zone Outer Limits Haven't had a chance to get into SG or B5, and tried Doctor Who but couldn't really get into it (if anyone has a specific episode I should see then please let me know).
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I enjoyed Farscape
Yes, IMHO Farscape is one of the most underestimated shows. This is my alltime favorite, even though I like Bab5, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica and all this other stuff. Farscape is just different, every single idea is taken a step further than in other movies. Regards, Leto
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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Well, I can give you my top 5... 1) Babylon 5 2) Firefly 3) ST: DS9 4) Heroes 5) ST: TNG Would probably have Dr. Who on that list, but I haven't seen much of it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I like the oldies: 1. Twighlight Zone 2. Star Trek (of course) 3. Dr Who (the older ones) I used to like Battle Star Galactica but when I watch it now I have to laugh... By the way, you gotta love how these threads start out with one topic and morph into something totally unrelated. How did a SciFi discussion turn into a discussion about "Good and Evil"?
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Its different depending on where you go. http://www.justnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/13277110/detail.html[^] Xena was Sci-Fi? Buffy? The original Start Trek #1? http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/gallery/topscifishows/[^] Tales from the Crypt and Wonder Woman? The Greatest American Hero? So what is the CP top 50? Or maybe just the top 10?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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digital man wrote:
kinar wrote: Just because someone perpetrates evil acts doesn't mean that those people are necesarily evil. That makes no sense.
Since we're on a WWII kick... In 1945, the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, basically obliterating two cities. Why? To end the war and prevent the greater loss of life that would have resulted from a full invasion. Does that make the US an "Evil Empire," like some radicals call us? We did a horrible thing, causing a large amount of pain and suffering for a lot of people, but we did it for what we thought was a good reason. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the act itself was still "evil." History still considers us to be the good guys.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the act itself was still "evil." I don't how anyone can argue with Ian. You are 100% correct, killing innocent people (men, women and children) and causing pain and suffering for generations to come cannot be classified as anything but evil. I don't understand why Americans (Of which I am) think that everything they do is justified and everything everyone else does is wrong. Webster's explanation of evil: 1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation> 2 a archaic : inferior b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor> c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper> 3 a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune :