Open Lwetter to Microsoft
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools?
Joe Blow isn't supposed to be making any money, he is supposed to be on government welfare.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground.
Fire up bittorrent and be free.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
-
hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
bryce wrote:
If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
Nah... One of them might accidentally answer a question, and that would be free technical support. Can't have that...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001I hit this wall with the steaming pile of poo that was VS 2005 and, their refusal to deal with existing issues on VS 2003. I haven't used a MS tool or technology for my business since mid 2006. I don't hate them or feel entitled but, I just don't need their products.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I've paid for every version since Win3.1 (I'm looking at my still unopened CD of Visual C++ 1.52). I used to buy only the Professional version (upgrade pricing), but that became unaffordable with VS2008. Now there's no version that makes any economic sense whatsoever. Oh well, it's been a fun 35 years, and I'm sure I can get many more years of value out of VS2008. But the discussions here at CP will quickly lose any relevance, I'm afraid...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
-
John, for severel years I always appreciated your sense of humour. But now I think you have tipped to madness! MS giving shit away it crazy!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
MS giving sh*t away it crazy!
not sure I understand what you're driving at, but that's exactly what MS do - they give dev tools and other stuff away to students worldwide. Obviously they are now trying to recoup that money...
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I never knew that, not that I need it currently, the office pays for such things but future use, sure. Thanks maxx
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Minimum buy-in in India is 35000 RS. (if i am not wrong), It's more then my month salary :sigh: How they will make good business with this is beyond me as in every 2 or 3 year they come up with their new Version to buy.
Viral My Site
Save Our Tigers -
hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
bryce wrote:
anger management class
Stay angry?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I never knew that, not that I need it currently, the office pays for such things but future use, sure. Thanks maxx
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
Microsoft's pricing is not much different than other industry's. I have more than $75,000 in software in my 6 employee business and every dollar of that makes me money on a daily basis. $800 represents 12 or so hours of time. That's pretty cheap if you asked me. Sure it would be great if it was cheaper, but until there's an alternative that let's me work as quickly as it does for banging out C#, C++, and ASP.Net, all nicely integrated with the 3rd party tools and libraries I use, I'll keep paying because it still makes me money. Cheers, Drew.
modified on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:13 AM
Drew Stainton wrote:
in my 6 employee business
And because you have a business, you can afford it. But what about us home users who want to use it for some private projects? I can't cough up $1500 or so just so I have a fancy text editor. And I'm not good enough to code everything with Notepad.
-
Huh, so if I create a business where I am the only employee, I can essentially get it for free (aside from fees to maintain the business)? That's neat.
-
hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
-
When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
Microsoft's pricing is not much different than other industry's. I have more than $75,000 in software in my 6 employee business and every dollar of that makes me money on a daily basis. $800 represents 12 or so hours of time. That's pretty cheap if you asked me. Sure it would be great if it was cheaper, but until there's an alternative that let's me work as quickly as it does for banging out C#, C++, and ASP.Net, all nicely integrated with the 3rd party tools and libraries I use, I'll keep paying because it still makes me money. Cheers, Drew.
modified on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:13 AM
I think the main problem is the removal of the Standard Edition for people who do serious development at home and aren't running their own business. Standard Edition sat squarely between the free Express (not powerful enough unless just mucking around) and Professional Edition (powerful enough, but more features for team-working which are less useful for a sole developer) which costs much more than the Standard. c.£600 is cheap for a business, but I wanted to install this on a rig at home, but it will cost far too much for me now. But put this into context of me at home, Microsoft has just doubled the cost. The lack of a Standard Edition is really annoying, as it now means I'm forced to find another IDE :~ or use the near-useless Express Edition.
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
-
I tried it recently when I was looking at the feasability of writing some Blackberry applications for our company for staff use. I did persevere for an hour or two but the experience was very painful (Nursey, nursey - is it time for my medicine?). MS VSxxxx may suck, but it sucks less than any other IDE I've used.
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
I tried it recently when I was looking at the feasability of writing some Blackberry applications for our company for staff use. I did persevere for an hour or two but the experience was very painful (Nursey, nursey - is it time for my medicine?). MS VSxxxx may suck, but it sucks less than any other IDE I've used.
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)VS is the gold standard in IDEs. There is not an IDE to even compare with its poop and saying that is incredibly shaming to the industry. Eclipse is, at best, as worthless as a knife made of putty. Netbeans is not that much better, albeit it is and now that Oracle has bought SUN and for starters has completely destroyed the licensing for OpenSolaris, one can only wonder what will happen to NetBeans.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
-
Huh, so if I create a business where I am the only employee, I can essentially get it for free (aside from fees to maintain the business)? That's neat.
The catch is that after 3 years, when you lose start-up status, you either pay for the Full MSDN subscription, or you pay $100 and leave the program and never to come back again unless you pay the full subscription. I suppose you could "kill" your company and come back again as another startup.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
