Something..something..something....Dark Side
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Sounds like your working in a antique workshop, have you girls ever heard of c#. :)
Two heads are better than one.
On Linux? You mean that language that the majority of distro's won't even ship the framework with because the language was developed by MSFT and thus inherently evil and blasphemous? The language with the majority of posters on the majority of forums claiming that anyone using C# should be hung for high treason? Or at the very least kicked from every project possible. No, couldn't be the same language.. Must be a different C# that will actually run on Linux without effort (in some cases a great deal of) on the part of the user. ;P
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Not at all - we couldn't even have written a project like Visual Lint in C# because of the in-process framework versioning limitations of the .NET framework, much less port the thing to Linux. ;) Besides, the way we have it set up C++ (with WTL, smart pointers and selected bits from C++ 0x is pretty productive and a whole lot of fun to work with. There's not a simple explicit AddRef()/Release() anywhere in our codebase, believe me. :)
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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We're taking a bit of time out from the day to day stuff to check out the feasibility of doing a cross platform port for one of our simpler projects. Now, although I started off my curly braces career with a Small-C command line compiler (CP/M!) I've been a Visual C++ dev since 16 bit days, so I'm kinda used to the IDE by now. Visual Studio may be a bit of a pig, but I can usually make it fly without too many crash-landings. However, one thing VS really sucks at is anything cross platform. So, here I am sitting in front of Eclipse/CDT and scratching my head - for someone used to Visual Studio, it's just a little weird. All things considered, the Windows version isn't that bad (just different, and slower) but to little old me under Linux (Ubuntu in this case) it feels like it's really trying hard to annoy me. Although it's the same UI, convincing it to actually produce a Linux executable (just a simple console app, nothing fancy) took some head scratching. Even once I thought I'd figured it out, it still looked like it had produced a Windows EXE (and one that wouldn't even run under Wine, at that). I'd been repeatedly back and forth through the project settings (which give the appearance of simplicity with none of the usability) to no avail. Twiddle something - build - watch it fail again. Repeat. Beth finally to the rescue - it seems that you can't launch a console app under Ubuntu by double clicking on it. You actually have to open a terminal window, navigate to the right folder and type in the name. :doh: At least the tests passed...and considering the code under test uses
ATL::CString, that's no mean feat on a foreign OS. The joys of thunking layers. :)Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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You can still use Qt Creator to write console apps. I do it all the time. It's a great IDE and the more people that use it, the better it will get.
I'm beginning to get the impression you like it. If it was using a more permissive licence than LGPL (e.g. BSD) we might just take a look at it.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Besides, I swore off vi back in my Uni days.
Well, 'the gold old days...' :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]The first time we encountered Unix machines at Uni the general consensus among my year is that they are were a security and usability nightmare waiting to happen. Open by default (you could hack someone else's terminal without even trying) and with an arcane command set and crap documentation. ;) We'd been weaned on PrimeOS, which was far more secure and easy to use at the time. Funny how things work out.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
modified on Friday, May 14, 2010 5:25 AM
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
AddRef()/Release()
Are those were the days... IUnknown and the intrinsic AddRef and Release..., brings tears to my eyes thinking about it :)
Two heads are better than one.
Some of the stuff we can do with the COM interfaces inside Visual Studio would make your hair curl. We've even got integration tests which automate the entire IDE and exercise it remotely. :cool:
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Some of the stuff we can do with the COM interfaces inside Visual Studio would make your hair curl. We've even got integration tests which automate the entire IDE and exercise it remotely. :cool:
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Some of the stuff we can do with the COM interfaces inside Visual Studio would make your hair curl.
Would do if I had any :),
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Visual Studio would make your hair curl. We've even got integration tests which automate the entire IDE and exercise it remotely
Sounds cool.
Two heads are better than one.
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We're taking a bit of time out from the day to day stuff to check out the feasibility of doing a cross platform port for one of our simpler projects. Now, although I started off my curly braces career with a Small-C command line compiler (CP/M!) I've been a Visual C++ dev since 16 bit days, so I'm kinda used to the IDE by now. Visual Studio may be a bit of a pig, but I can usually make it fly without too many crash-landings. However, one thing VS really sucks at is anything cross platform. So, here I am sitting in front of Eclipse/CDT and scratching my head - for someone used to Visual Studio, it's just a little weird. All things considered, the Windows version isn't that bad (just different, and slower) but to little old me under Linux (Ubuntu in this case) it feels like it's really trying hard to annoy me. Although it's the same UI, convincing it to actually produce a Linux executable (just a simple console app, nothing fancy) took some head scratching. Even once I thought I'd figured it out, it still looked like it had produced a Windows EXE (and one that wouldn't even run under Wine, at that). I'd been repeatedly back and forth through the project settings (which give the appearance of simplicity with none of the usability) to no avail. Twiddle something - build - watch it fail again. Repeat. Beth finally to the rescue - it seems that you can't launch a console app under Ubuntu by double clicking on it. You actually have to open a terminal window, navigate to the right folder and type in the name. :doh: At least the tests passed...and considering the code under test uses
ATL::CString, that's no mean feat on a foreign OS. The joys of thunking layers. :)Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
I have tried various dev systems over the years - I still prefer a good editor (Slickedit) which integrates with the other systems, over any of the IDEs. However, for cross-platform development (especially if you are switching between Windows and Linux) I find Netbeans to be about the best. Like you I found the esoteric knowledge needed to make Eclipse work just too much trouble to learn (and I came at that as an IBM ISV - IBM support Eclipse explicitly) YMMV of course... Mike
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: it seems that you can't launch a console app under Ubuntu by double clicking on it See, there's your problem. You're assuming a Linux build operates like a Windows build. Have fun with that. ;P
Not at all, but I do expect some semblence of usability. Double clicking on a file should do something (even if it's just to display a message telling me "Please don't do that"), but instead it sat there like a lemming. A mute one, at that. I couldn't work out whether I had a duff binary, hadn't installed the right bits or what. Bear in mind I've been working with a variety of OSs (both command line and GUI) since the early 1980s so I've seen most things, one way or another - so if I'm stratching my head over the easy stuff, where does that leave the "ordinary" people Linux aspires to serve?
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Qt + Qt Creator + (Windows|Mac|Linux) = success!
It's always good to hear success stories. :)
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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I have tried various dev systems over the years - I still prefer a good editor (Slickedit) which integrates with the other systems, over any of the IDEs. However, for cross-platform development (especially if you are switching between Windows and Linux) I find Netbeans to be about the best. Like you I found the esoteric knowledge needed to make Eclipse work just too much trouble to learn (and I came at that as an IBM ISV - IBM support Eclipse explicitly) YMMV of course... Mike
Thanks for the advice. I have a feeling we'll be looking at Netbeans (from the plug-in perspective) in due course anyway, as we were asked about it at the ACCU Conference last month. :-\
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Some of the stuff we can do with the COM interfaces inside Visual Studio would make your hair curl.
Would do if I had any :),
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Visual Studio would make your hair curl. We've even got integration tests which automate the entire IDE and exercise it remotely
Sounds cool.
Two heads are better than one.
Norm .net wrote:
Would do if I had any
Where did I say I meant the hair on your head? ;)
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Norm .net wrote:
Would do if I had any
Where did I say I meant the hair on your head? ;)
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Gotcha! ;P
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Thanks for the advice. I have a feeling we'll be looking at Netbeans (from the plug-in perspective) in due course anyway, as we were asked about it at the ACCU Conference last month. :-\
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
I know you've been working on VS extensibility for quite a while. What book would you recommend for a total newbie (me)? The MSDN docs, though accurate, are only useful as a reference - I'm desperately looking for something that will give me the big picture.
Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
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We're taking a bit of time out from the day to day stuff to check out the feasibility of doing a cross platform port for one of our simpler projects. Now, although I started off my curly braces career with a Small-C command line compiler (CP/M!) I've been a Visual C++ dev since 16 bit days, so I'm kinda used to the IDE by now. Visual Studio may be a bit of a pig, but I can usually make it fly without too many crash-landings. However, one thing VS really sucks at is anything cross platform. So, here I am sitting in front of Eclipse/CDT and scratching my head - for someone used to Visual Studio, it's just a little weird. All things considered, the Windows version isn't that bad (just different, and slower) but to little old me under Linux (Ubuntu in this case) it feels like it's really trying hard to annoy me. Although it's the same UI, convincing it to actually produce a Linux executable (just a simple console app, nothing fancy) took some head scratching. Even once I thought I'd figured it out, it still looked like it had produced a Windows EXE (and one that wouldn't even run under Wine, at that). I'd been repeatedly back and forth through the project settings (which give the appearance of simplicity with none of the usability) to no avail. Twiddle something - build - watch it fail again. Repeat. Beth finally to the rescue - it seems that you can't launch a console app under Ubuntu by double clicking on it. You actually have to open a terminal window, navigate to the right folder and type in the name. :doh: At least the tests passed...and considering the code under test uses
ATL::CString, that's no mean feat on a foreign OS. The joys of thunking layers. :)Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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You know what's cross platform? Da web! Just write a web app that will use your old code and your are done. GUI design? Throw together some html and css. As good as any UI library that is cross-platform, if not better. Cost? 0
That may be, but I'd love to see you try doing what we do in a web app - particularly when one of the stipulations for many of our installations is that the machines aren't internet connected.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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I know you've been working on VS extensibility for quite a while. What book would you recommend for a total newbie (me)? The MSDN docs, though accurate, are only useful as a reference - I'm desperately looking for something that will give me the big picture.
Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
It really depends what you want to do. For macros and add-ins, Working With Visual Studio 2005[^] and Visual Studio Hacks[^] are probably the best you'll find. Bear in mind that each language service has it's own automation model below the generic Visual Studio one (VCProjectEngine for C++, VSLangProj for C# and VB etc.). That's not immediately obvious in the books - and I VCProjectEngine in particular warrants a book in its own right. However, for the lowest - and most powerful level of Visual Studio Exensibility (the VSIP interfaces, in which language services such as Visual C++ and Visual C#) ar eimplemented, there are no books to my knowledge so blogs and source are your only reference. If you're writing in C++ for VSIP it's worth being aware of the Visual Studio Library[^], a template based framework which makes VSIP a bit more usable. If you can give me an idea what you are trying to do, I should be able to steer you in the right direction.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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It really depends what you want to do. For macros and add-ins, Working With Visual Studio 2005[^] and Visual Studio Hacks[^] are probably the best you'll find. Bear in mind that each language service has it's own automation model below the generic Visual Studio one (VCProjectEngine for C++, VSLangProj for C# and VB etc.). That's not immediately obvious in the books - and I VCProjectEngine in particular warrants a book in its own right. However, for the lowest - and most powerful level of Visual Studio Exensibility (the VSIP interfaces, in which language services such as Visual C++ and Visual C#) ar eimplemented, there are no books to my knowledge so blogs and source are your only reference. If you're writing in C++ for VSIP it's worth being aware of the Visual Studio Library[^], a template based framework which makes VSIP a bit more usable. If you can give me an idea what you are trying to do, I should be able to steer you in the right direction.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
However, for the lowest - and most powerful level of Visual Studio Exensibility (the VSIP interfaces, in which language services such as Visual C++ and Visual C#) ar eimplemented, there are no books to my knowledge so blogs and source are your only reference.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm trying to learn more about writing language services for custom languages and related things in C#. It's disappointing to know there are no books; but then I guess the target market is way too small for books to be commercially successful. The number of classes/interfaces in the SDK is truly overwhelming, and there are several levels of abstractions as well (for managed code atleast). I can't figure out if I'm reimplementing some piece of functionality that is already provided by VS. I feel hopelessly lost :( Are there any good blogs that you like? Google throws up a ton of them, and I don't know which ones to trust - there seems to be a lot of ways to do the same thing, like syntax highlighting, for example.
Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
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Lots of embedded IDEs are based on Eclipse, so we're working on a plug-in for it. That being the case, it makes sense to actually use it so we can become familiar with some of the "subtleties". Besides, I swore off vi back in my Uni days.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
Funny, I just swore at vi.