VS 2010 driving me insane
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It's not a lock-up. Everything works perfectly normally except I could not edit line 2. If the whole file gets locked then I can edit any other file, compile, whatever. Just that file. I then jiggle a mysterious *something* and then it works again. I think it's the WPF
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
The last website I worked on, VS2008 would not allow me to see or edit the first line of the default.aspx page. Editing the line in Notepad was my only option, and it resolved a bunch of problems. Is there a copy of EDLIN.Net somewhere around the shop? :rolleyes:
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Man, what Koolaid have you been drinking? And by the way, bubba - you're older than me, if I recall.
In your dreams, sonny ;)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Intellisense is nice but Visual SlickEdit (and its competitors, I'm sure) do that, too. What, just because VS has a built in editor, I'm supposed to use it or I'm a Luddite? Even if it's pathetic? What if they threw in some photo editing capabilities - should I sell Photoshop?
Seriously, though, I agree with you on that. You need tools and good tools at that and the best tools available when possible. Although there's a limit. For instance, in various bits and pieces that I do I need to produce nice page layouts. Now I could sink a chunk of money into InDesign - and it's not like I couldn't afford to - but I'd never use an eighth of the features or get passed the learning curve which is why I go for something more accessible. It's almost the same with VS, but slightly in reverse. VS does an extremely good job of masking the complexity of what's really going on at the expense of understanding what's really going on, but by masking that complexity it pretends that there is nothing better. Bring back 6502 machine code, is what I say. I understood computers back then!
martin_hughes wrote:
In your dreams, sonny
martin_hughes wrote:
Bring back 6502 machine code, is what I say. I understood computers back then!
"Warning. Error. Error. Vjer cannot compute. Error. Error... Must iron hands..." Nice try masking the age there, old guy. :) As for masking the complexity, I really grappled with that one recently. It turned out that the cheapest deal to get Photoshop CS4 was their Web Design Suite, which included Dreamweaver, Flash, et al. I happen to be in need of a new site, and I'd really just like to get it done. Dreamweaver, like FrontPage, Expression in a Blender, etc. is designed to make it easy for any monkey who can wiggle a mouse to kick out good looking stuff. Okay, sold so far. I just want the site up. But wait, there's a catch. I also have to fetch data from Sql Server, process forms, and do a number of other things in C# behind the scenes. Crap. Now I suddenly care what's under the hood again. Thus hiding the complexity no longer serves me well. Even if Adobe and MS technologies played nicely together 100% (a pipe dream, of course), when I do need to look behind the curtain the generated code is going to be unreadable, poorly formatted crap. That's true of Dreamweaver, VS or anything else. Seems there are really only two ways that things are done well. Visually design your stuff, and I mean stay 100% in the wysiwyg tools (Chris, how dare you edit VS's code, even if it's just line 2???), or fuggedabout the designers, code it yourself, and have maintainable code. If you take the latter path, I strongly suggest that you don't try to cut steak with a butter knife. Get a real editor. As for what I did in the war, well... you know this was the kind of thing that the wars were fought over, right? :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
Chris Maunder wrote:
Today is "Thou Shalt Not Touch Line 2 Day".
how will you do THAT graphic for Bob??
_________________________ John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others." Shhhhh.... I am not really here. I am a figment of your imagination.... I am still in my cave so this must be an illusion....
Just don't ask where line 2 is.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
I was about to install that monstrosity. You're giving me pause.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001I'd rather watch Christian install it. He doesn't have guns. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
The last website I worked on, VS2008 would not allow me to see or edit the first line of the default.aspx page. Editing the line in Notepad was my only option, and it resolved a bunch of problems. Is there a copy of EDLIN.Net somewhere around the shop? :rolleyes:
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
You know I just had to fire up a dos prompt to see if it still lived. Regrettably, it's suffered the same fate as MS development tool quality. Edlin may be gone to that great bit bucket in the sky, but you'll be delighted to know that edit lives on. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
martin_hughes wrote:
In your dreams, sonny
martin_hughes wrote:
Bring back 6502 machine code, is what I say. I understood computers back then!
"Warning. Error. Error. Vjer cannot compute. Error. Error... Must iron hands..." Nice try masking the age there, old guy. :) As for masking the complexity, I really grappled with that one recently. It turned out that the cheapest deal to get Photoshop CS4 was their Web Design Suite, which included Dreamweaver, Flash, et al. I happen to be in need of a new site, and I'd really just like to get it done. Dreamweaver, like FrontPage, Expression in a Blender, etc. is designed to make it easy for any monkey who can wiggle a mouse to kick out good looking stuff. Okay, sold so far. I just want the site up. But wait, there's a catch. I also have to fetch data from Sql Server, process forms, and do a number of other things in C# behind the scenes. Crap. Now I suddenly care what's under the hood again. Thus hiding the complexity no longer serves me well. Even if Adobe and MS technologies played nicely together 100% (a pipe dream, of course), when I do need to look behind the curtain the generated code is going to be unreadable, poorly formatted crap. That's true of Dreamweaver, VS or anything else. Seems there are really only two ways that things are done well. Visually design your stuff, and I mean stay 100% in the wysiwyg tools (Chris, how dare you edit VS's code, even if it's just line 2???), or fuggedabout the designers, code it yourself, and have maintainable code. If you take the latter path, I strongly suggest that you don't try to cut steak with a butter knife. Get a real editor. As for what I did in the war, well... you know this was the kind of thing that the wars were fought over, right? :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesJust us old boys and our war stories left :) I shudder to think what archivists will make of it all in 10,000 years time :D (Except that you were clearly older, obviously ;) )
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The core feature of Visual Studio is the ability to edit source code. That's #1. For me, though, Visual Studio 2010 is continually getting into a state where it no longer allows me to type. Usually I can just switch to another tab, then back again, or I close the file and reopen, and then I can edit again. There's no warning - just suddenly I can no longer type in that window. Sometimes if I switch away, then back, I see all the typing (and banging) that I did appear, meaning lots of Ctrl-Z-ing. However, I've just had a new one: I can no longer edit the second line in my current file. Everything else is fine, but I can't drag and drop, delete, type on it - nothing. Line 1 is great, line3, it welcomes my edits. But not line 2. Today is "Thou Shalt Not Touch Line 2 Day". I have to say that for all this talk of focus on quality in Microsoft products, they were using the wrong glasses. VS 2010 is becoming painful.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
VS has decided that line 2 is the best line of code you've ever written and is making sure you don't throw it all away.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Just us old boys and our war stories left :) I shudder to think what archivists will make of it all in 10,000 years time :D (Except that you were clearly older, obviously ;) )
Yeah, every now and then I go out in the back yard and break a dinner plate, as a courtesy to future generations of archeologists. And trust me. I was born old. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
I bow to your superiour knowledge.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Rather, you bend over for it.
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VS has decided that line 2 is the best line of code you've ever written and is making sure you don't throw it all away.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Indeed. It probably deserves a full-fledged article, explaining it all, including history and purpose. And not just a simple rant about its stability and tenacity. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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Chris Maunder wrote:
The core feature of Visual Studio is the ability to edit source code.
Really? I use it mostly for debugging. There are much better code editors out there.
Yes but do you get similar type of contextual Intellisense is them?
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I suppose for those who are used to working completely in the IDE it would be weird to toggle back and forth between the compiler / debugger and an editor (though perhaps not as weird as being unable to edit line 2). I've been doing it so long it's natural to me and I simply can't imagine trusting my coding, i.e. what I spend most of my time doing when developing, to a subpar application. No matter what I'm doing, I like power tools. I wouldn't use a chainsaw to change sparkplugs, so why would I want to use a compiler / debugger to write source code? The right tool for the job, and all that.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesChristopher Duncan wrote:
I've been doing it so long it's natural to me and I simply can't imagine trusting my coding, i.e. what I spend most of my time doing when developing, to a subpar application.
That's a powerful statement which I do not think is true either. Whatever, editor you are using does it understand code as code or does it simply consider it text? Does it have contextual Intellisense? Can it refactor your code? Modern IDE editors do that and even they have a few glitches, they do it better than any regular text editors. Text editors are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to edit code. The right tool for editing text is a text editor and the right tool for editing code is an IDE. VS for C#/VB.NET and Eclipse for Java. I am all for right tool for right job but the job has to be defined correctly and be known first:)
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The core feature of Visual Studio is the ability to edit source code. That's #1. For me, though, Visual Studio 2010 is continually getting into a state where it no longer allows me to type. Usually I can just switch to another tab, then back again, or I close the file and reopen, and then I can edit again. There's no warning - just suddenly I can no longer type in that window. Sometimes if I switch away, then back, I see all the typing (and banging) that I did appear, meaning lots of Ctrl-Z-ing. However, I've just had a new one: I can no longer edit the second line in my current file. Everything else is fine, but I can't drag and drop, delete, type on it - nothing. Line 1 is great, line3, it welcomes my edits. But not line 2. Today is "Thou Shalt Not Touch Line 2 Day". I have to say that for all this talk of focus on quality in Microsoft products, they were using the wrong glasses. VS 2010 is becoming painful.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
unplug it, then plug it back in. or maybe detonate a hydrogen bomb near it ?
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
I've been doing it so long it's natural to me and I simply can't imagine trusting my coding, i.e. what I spend most of my time doing when developing, to a subpar application.
That's a powerful statement which I do not think is true either. Whatever, editor you are using does it understand code as code or does it simply consider it text? Does it have contextual Intellisense? Can it refactor your code? Modern IDE editors do that and even they have a few glitches, they do it better than any regular text editors. Text editors are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to edit code. The right tool for editing text is a text editor and the right tool for editing code is an IDE. VS for C#/VB.NET and Eclipse for Java. I am all for right tool for right job but the job has to be defined correctly and be known first:)
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Text editors are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to edit code.
Text editors (notepad) are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to compile and debug, with a built in editor to help you fix your screwup when you find it. Programmers editors are meant for programming, and doing it really, really fast. Intellisense, refactoring, etc. are supported by Visual SlickEdit and I suspect all of its peers. As for the definition of the job, it's kicking out good, maintainable code and meeting the deadline. IDEs, with VS being a great example, try to be all things to all people. That's rarely a recipe for best in class functionality. And by the way, I didn't just come up with this perspective out of the clear blue sky. I've used IDEs, visual design tools, programmers editors, etc. over the years, and that's how I've formed my opinions on the merits of half assed IDE editors, half assed IDE visual design tools (yeah, VS, I'm talkin' to you), etc. For compiling and debugging, VS gets my vote, but it's hardly best of breed in the other categories.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
The core feature of Visual Studio is the ability to edit source code. That's #1. For me, though, Visual Studio 2010 is continually getting into a state where it no longer allows me to type. Usually I can just switch to another tab, then back again, or I close the file and reopen, and then I can edit again. There's no warning - just suddenly I can no longer type in that window. Sometimes if I switch away, then back, I see all the typing (and banging) that I did appear, meaning lots of Ctrl-Z-ing. However, I've just had a new one: I can no longer edit the second line in my current file. Everything else is fine, but I can't drag and drop, delete, type on it - nothing. Line 1 is great, line3, it welcomes my edits. But not line 2. Today is "Thou Shalt Not Touch Line 2 Day". I have to say that for all this talk of focus on quality in Microsoft products, they were using the wrong glasses. VS 2010 is becoming painful.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Thank you, that makes me feel much better. Now I am not allowed work on .NET projects yet, I have to use some java crap that pretends to be an IDE. The problem I had yesterday is even funnier than yours: Everything I typed appears backwards. Java becomes avaJ, String becomes gnirtS, which makes me want to flesym llik. Now I know I am not the only one who is suffering. :-D
My .NET Business Application Framework My Younger Son & His "PET"
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Text editors are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to edit code.
Text editors (notepad) are meant to edit text, IDEs are meant to compile and debug, with a built in editor to help you fix your screwup when you find it. Programmers editors are meant for programming, and doing it really, really fast. Intellisense, refactoring, etc. are supported by Visual SlickEdit and I suspect all of its peers. As for the definition of the job, it's kicking out good, maintainable code and meeting the deadline. IDEs, with VS being a great example, try to be all things to all people. That's rarely a recipe for best in class functionality. And by the way, I didn't just come up with this perspective out of the clear blue sky. I've used IDEs, visual design tools, programmers editors, etc. over the years, and that's how I've formed my opinions on the merits of half assed IDE editors, half assed IDE visual design tools (yeah, VS, I'm talkin' to you), etc. For compiling and debugging, VS gets my vote, but it's hardly best of breed in the other categories.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesWhat does Visual Slick Edit give me which the IDE editor does not? I see that it is full of features but I can see all those features in VS editor too. Also I do not see it supporting any kind of refactoring.
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What does Visual Slick Edit give me which the IDE editor does not? I see that it is full of features but I can see all those features in VS editor too. Also I do not see it supporting any kind of refactoring.
Well for one thing, you can edit Line 2. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
Well for one thing, you can edit Line 2. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesThat's something Chris found probably the soy latte did not work for him :). He needs real coffee. I tried SlickEdit after a friend recommended it, but he was not able to show me anything concrete which was not already there in VS. He had lot of "Aha" moments. I do not buy that the whole premise that VS editor is somehow half baked or that IDE's meant for writing, compiling and debugging code cannot be good in all these things. In fact code editing is much more of a defining feature of an IDE than the ability to debug.
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The core feature of Visual Studio is the ability to edit source code. That's #1. For me, though, Visual Studio 2010 is continually getting into a state where it no longer allows me to type. Usually I can just switch to another tab, then back again, or I close the file and reopen, and then I can edit again. There's no warning - just suddenly I can no longer type in that window. Sometimes if I switch away, then back, I see all the typing (and banging) that I did appear, meaning lots of Ctrl-Z-ing. However, I've just had a new one: I can no longer edit the second line in my current file. Everything else is fine, but I can't drag and drop, delete, type on it - nothing. Line 1 is great, line3, it welcomes my edits. But not line 2. Today is "Thou Shalt Not Touch Line 2 Day". I have to say that for all this talk of focus on quality in Microsoft products, they were using the wrong glasses. VS 2010 is becoming painful.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I've had a similar issue with VS05, except it would be an entire file I couldn't edit. I couldn't even see my cursor when I clicked on it. But if I tapped the Shift key, or sometimes turned caps lock on and off, then it would start working. I think I absentmindedly held down the Shift key while I clicked on something else, and VS was like "WTF, I don't know what to do with that!?" So it decided to wait until I "undid" whatever it was i did. Dybs
The shout of progress is not "Eureka!" it's "Strange... that's not what i expected". - peterchen
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You know I just had to fire up a dos prompt to see if it still lived. Regrettably, it's suffered the same fate as MS development tool quality. Edlin may be gone to that great bit bucket in the sky, but you'll be delighted to know that edit lives on. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesChristopher Duncan wrote:
edit lives on
Wonderful! An editor that just works! :-D I'm glad it survived...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
