,NET to PHP
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
So, expand your toolbox and use PHP and MySQL. There's nothing wrong with them and it's likely easier to do that on a Linux or Unix server than it is to run .NET. Personally I use MySQL and PHP for systems that have to work on Linux servers. The only drawback is the IDE, but that's not too hard to work around and get used to. Download a copy of XAMPP[^] and get to work expanding your skills. It won't cost anything to set that up and get started. (I use PSPad[^] for my IDE when working on PHP - it's also free to download.)
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
It may turn out easy for you, but maybe not for the client. If they have their own servers, they may have to buy licenses for SQL Server and Windows Server if they do not already have. Or they are hosting the site with someone else, .NET hosting may be more expensive than PHP hosting. In effect if they go the LAMP way, their overall cost could end up being zilch
SG Aham Brahmasmi!
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
Well tell him Facebook is not all running in PHP, actually is a custom PHP with a dozen of technologies behind the front end (that is php) facebook is not good because of php but because all there is behind it php is just a mere face in the facebook :)
-
Well tell him Facebook is not all running in PHP, actually is a custom PHP with a dozen of technologies behind the front end (that is php) facebook is not good because of php but because all there is behind it php is just a mere face in the facebook :)
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
AndyInUK wrote:
But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good.
Then describe what facebook does, and compare it with what the client wants to do. "<Company A> uses <product B>, and it works for them!" never works for me. Each company has its own specific needs, based on: - what they deliver. - when and how they deliver it. - existing production processes. - how and when they communicate with the outside world. - the skill sets extant within the company or that could be easily acquired. Each of the above has costs (in time, stress, or cash), which are affected by doing something one way or another. You have to add the costs of doing something in a specific way to the bottom line, so that they can see it. But don't recite numbers; show them pictures -- they don't have time to learn your way of looking at things. And don't (as in DO NOT!) "massage" the numbers to bias things. If they see that you're fiddling it, they'll never trust you again. Oh, and if, after analysing it, you find that their way does actually turn up on top (which could happen, even though it's not particularly likely), tell them, and accept that you'll have to do it that way with a good heart. [edited to move a misplaced comma][I can't live with things like that!]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
I guess the first thing here is, who says facebook works.. Facebook is a buggy system that continues to have issues from simple to "let's drag the programmers into the street and beet them for an hour".. There is always the simple solution, find another client :)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: The Arrogant Apple!
-
So, expand your toolbox and use PHP and MySQL. There's nothing wrong with them and it's likely easier to do that on a Linux or Unix server than it is to run .NET. Personally I use MySQL and PHP for systems that have to work on Linux servers. The only drawback is the IDE, but that's not too hard to work around and get used to. Download a copy of XAMPP[^] and get to work expanding your skills. It won't cost anything to set that up and get started. (I use PSPad[^] for my IDE when working on PHP - it's also free to download.)
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
This. Learning additional languages and syntax as a developer should be a great incentive. To be stuck in one path is a very dangerous choice. Also, the fundamentals and concepts should be the same irrespective of language and all your doing is learning new syntax and practices for that system. What makes you a good developer should not be what language you know but what you can produce via adaption to a project/problem.
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
Do you have option of extending your team, you may get somebody on project on contract / project wise basis.
-
This. Learning additional languages and syntax as a developer should be a great incentive. To be stuck in one path is a very dangerous choice. Also, the fundamentals and concepts should be the same irrespective of language and all your doing is learning new syntax and practices for that system. What makes you a good developer should not be what language you know but what you can produce via adaption to a project/problem.
Mario Luis wrote:
Learning additional languages and syntax as a developer should be a great incentive. To be stuck in one path is a very dangerous choice.
Not necessarily. I'm all for learning new languages and technology, but you can also spread yourself too thin. After being a developer for 35 years I have found that it is sometimes necessary to make choices as to what you are going to be an expert in and what you are going to set aside. Ever heard the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? I've met a number of developers that could spout long lists of technologies they know but when it comes to being really expert at any of them, well, they just aren't. Oh yeah they can spit out code in any of six languages, however the quality of the code they spit ain't worth spit. The key here is becoming expert in a set of technologies that will have a target audience. (I.E. to whom you can sell your services and produce excellent results). If you are really sharp enough to juggle the balls required to maintain proficiency in multiple technologies then, great, but it's not necessarily the best way to do it. I'd rather be able to market myself as a .Net expert than just someone who "can code in .Net and PHP". To say you are "expert" in multiple platforms is making a pretty bold claim in the real world. Sooner or later, particularly as you hone your skills (and become older) you have to narrow your specialty. Otherwise you're "chasing rabbits". My 2-cents, -Max
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
I've been really surprised by the replies you have to this. I don't want to get into the debate of which is better, simple answer to me is they both have good and bad points. What is more relevant here is what you are doing with your client. The first question has to be: Do you have incredibly specific knowledge of your clients business that cannot easily be learnt by someone else? If the answer to that question is yes, then it is possibly worthwhile them paying for you to learn PHP - business knowledge and understanding can be very hard to pick up. I am going to assume that this is not the case - it doesn't sound like you have a history with the client so it is unlikely. So why shouldn't you try and convince them to do it in ASP.NET and SQL Server. Well firstly they may not even own a server that runs Windows - so there is some fair cost involved for them to get it - and they almost definitely won't have licences for SQL Server, which are expensive. I know you can use SQL Express but I am assuming this project is bigger than that. Then they probably have no one that can administer it, make future changes etc. Now you could offer to host it and have a maintenance contract etc (residual income is always nice) but if they were happy with that they wouldn't care what you wrote the system in and you wouldn't be asking this question. So why shouldn't you learn PHP? Well firstly AndyInUK implies you are in the UK. For whatever reasons .NET is completely dominant in the UK and learning PHP will offer you few benefits in terms of future work. Yes PHP projects exist and you might get one in the future because of this experience, but there are less of them and they generally pay less, so the benefits are negligible (I'm not saying this to start some sort of flame war, this is just my personal opinion from my 11 years of freelancing and contracting in the London market). Second reason not to learn PHP is the time it will take you to do so. Lets say you want the client, because lets face it turning down money is very hard to do. So what is this project worth in terms of development time. 500 hours in .NET? So to learn a whole new language, get a development machine up and running, understand how all the pieces piece together, work out which is the best IDE etc etc etc is going to add a lot of time. Weeks in fact. So your 500 hour project is going to turn into 750 hours. Which your client is not going to want to pay for. If you started hunting around for another client and spent 250 hours on it do you think you c
-
Mario Luis wrote:
Learning additional languages and syntax as a developer should be a great incentive. To be stuck in one path is a very dangerous choice.
Not necessarily. I'm all for learning new languages and technology, but you can also spread yourself too thin. After being a developer for 35 years I have found that it is sometimes necessary to make choices as to what you are going to be an expert in and what you are going to set aside. Ever heard the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? I've met a number of developers that could spout long lists of technologies they know but when it comes to being really expert at any of them, well, they just aren't. Oh yeah they can spit out code in any of six languages, however the quality of the code they spit ain't worth spit. The key here is becoming expert in a set of technologies that will have a target audience. (I.E. to whom you can sell your services and produce excellent results). If you are really sharp enough to juggle the balls required to maintain proficiency in multiple technologies then, great, but it's not necessarily the best way to do it. I'd rather be able to market myself as a .Net expert than just someone who "can code in .Net and PHP". To say you are "expert" in multiple platforms is making a pretty bold claim in the real world. Sooner or later, particularly as you hone your skills (and become older) you have to narrow your specialty. Otherwise you're "chasing rabbits". My 2-cents, -Max
Certainly the Jack of all Trades is a good argument but the issue also remains that , especially in IT, technologies come and go and putting yourself in a niche only is shortsighted. Generally people do focus down to a specific technology to become experts in that field but my main point is that the main tool that you use, is yourself and not the technologies that you implement. I enjoy c# as a language and code mainly ASP web pages, however I have good database knowledge and it shocks me at times with the lack of understanding about database that a lot of developers have. Also generally only large corporates can afford a highly specialized developer and that restricts your job opportunities , depending on your local situation. In my region there is a growing demand by SME's for developers that while focused in a particular field, have the versatility to branch if needed by the company. Like everything in life, the best a developer can do is listen to the market, the trends that are happening around them, locally and abroad, and do what they think is best. Sometimes you burn but that is life's lessons and can only be learnt by experiencing it.
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
AndyInUK wrote:
I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good.
If you cant think of a good reason yourself then maybe you need to look into it a bit more. Ive been a .net developer since it was introduced and only just started learning php recently out of curiosity. I think as a developer its wise to learn php. Given its mass adoption you never know when you might need those skills (like, right now!) Its not that difficult to pick up and there are a lot of good introductions to it available online (try w3schools for example) You just gotta weigh up whether the end solution they want will be difficult to achieve in php being a 'newbie' to the language and framework.
---Guy H ;-)---
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
Really it depends what your building as both languages have the streights and there weeknesses, but basically it will always comes down to money. PHP hosting is very cheap compared to asp.net and alot of apps are written in PHP (or peril if the developer cant be bothered using php)and the cost of development is ususally cheaper as php developer get paid less that asp.net ones (well from what i have seen) If there planning to host internally, on a windows machine and sql server express will cover you needs then you should advice them to go that way as dvelopment would be faster and there for cheaper. If not then your stuck wiht good old php and my god have mercy on your soul (if he exsited that is.) Note you can download for free some good php development tools e.g. eclipse php, and php unit test client to make life easier. and you should look to use the wealth of open source apps to help build your site. Good luck
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
As much as I can admire you for trying to compare these: go with what the client wants, it'll be good for you. PHP is able to be run on any OS which has a server written for it and more importantly, the language implementation is free (this could be, through and through, why the client wants use of the language..). MySQL is, again, able to be run on any OS (again, a good choice on their part if they want the code to be run-able on any server they decide to use). ASP.net is primarily class-based, while PHP is the JoaT here in that it has both OOP and Functional Programming models as default ways to go about things. MSSQL can be good at some things, but in my experience, it's expensive and slow in comparison to MySQL when using MySQL's InnoDB storage engine. As previous posters have said, they've each got their ups and downs, therefore neither is better. I uses PHP by preference as I can get more done faster. For an IDE (of sorts), I use PHP.net's documentation and NotePad++ (http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/) plus the editor has a built-in help mechanism to do lookups on PHP.net by a key-combination (Alt + F1). Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this as it's not a crime to use free languages and free software, but (imho) it is a crime to get stuck down to just one language pair (ASP.net/MSSQL) just because you cannot see the merits of a different language pair (PHP/MySQL) and accept when a client wants to use them ;).
The worst thing about the darkness is the light at the end - DX-MON
-
Certainly the Jack of all Trades is a good argument but the issue also remains that , especially in IT, technologies come and go and putting yourself in a niche only is shortsighted. Generally people do focus down to a specific technology to become experts in that field but my main point is that the main tool that you use, is yourself and not the technologies that you implement. I enjoy c# as a language and code mainly ASP web pages, however I have good database knowledge and it shocks me at times with the lack of understanding about database that a lot of developers have. Also generally only large corporates can afford a highly specialized developer and that restricts your job opportunities , depending on your local situation. In my region there is a growing demand by SME's for developers that while focused in a particular field, have the versatility to branch if needed by the company. Like everything in life, the best a developer can do is listen to the market, the trends that are happening around them, locally and abroad, and do what they think is best. Sometimes you burn but that is life's lessons and can only be learnt by experiencing it.
-
I think we're generally on the same page here, Luis. The difficult part, sometimes, is knowing where to focus. I wouldn't call .Net a "niche" market, though. I think if you're strong in .Net and SQL Server you'll have some work to do. :-) -max
Hehe indeed :-D Nice meeting you.
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
I've coded in both and I think that ASP.NET should be used for any application that will be continued to be developed on after you're gone. If you code ASP.NET applications right, they'll be more understandable. Its more the same argument of why ASP.NET is better than classic ASP. No spaghetti code. Microsoft knows enterprise development. On the other hand, "quick and dirty, done right" should be the motto of PHP. I love using AJAX with PHP (this was before the 3.5 Framework came out). I prefer generating tables from code rather than dinking around with configuring a repeater control. BUT! When the next developer gets his hands on my code, he or she is gonna need to understand it as fast as possible, which is why I code in ASP.NET now. -Anton
-
As much as I can admire you for trying to compare these: go with what the client wants, it'll be good for you. PHP is able to be run on any OS which has a server written for it and more importantly, the language implementation is free (this could be, through and through, why the client wants use of the language..). MySQL is, again, able to be run on any OS (again, a good choice on their part if they want the code to be run-able on any server they decide to use). ASP.net is primarily class-based, while PHP is the JoaT here in that it has both OOP and Functional Programming models as default ways to go about things. MSSQL can be good at some things, but in my experience, it's expensive and slow in comparison to MySQL when using MySQL's InnoDB storage engine. As previous posters have said, they've each got their ups and downs, therefore neither is better. I uses PHP by preference as I can get more done faster. For an IDE (of sorts), I use PHP.net's documentation and NotePad++ (http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/) plus the editor has a built-in help mechanism to do lookups on PHP.net by a key-combination (Alt + F1). Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this as it's not a crime to use free languages and free software, but (imho) it is a crime to get stuck down to just one language pair (ASP.net/MSSQL) just because you cannot see the merits of a different language pair (PHP/MySQL) and accept when a client wants to use them ;).
The worst thing about the darkness is the light at the end - DX-MON
RichardMant wrote:
Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this as it's not a crime to use free languages and free software, but (imho) it is a crime to get stuck down to just one language pair (ASP.net/MSSQL) just because you cannot see the merits of a different language pair (PHP/MySQL) and accept when a client wants to use them Wink .
No, of course it isn't a crime to use free languages and tools - by no means. It's no crime to have exposure to multiple technologies either - if you have the bandwidth to do so. I started to find after awhile that trying to master two (or more) completely different technologies (at the same time, at least) made it difficult to develop proficiency in either one of them. Perhaps I'm just getting old and tired compared with some of the younger hot-shots around here but it's not easy to study two different disciplines at the same time! ;-) For example: I spent some time recently studying the Java platform. While there is a lot of commonality between it and C# the syntax of the two (and the toolset) are just enough different that I would constantly be trying to remember what goes with what. (I run into this when coding VB.Net vs C#) Yes, I could do it - and probably make it work, however I developed the distinct feeling like I was standing on two boats that were drifting apart. There's massive amounts of learning to be done for both platforms if you want to become proficient in (and keep up with) either one of them. So ... it was either step onto one boat or the other or fall into the water. I can, at least, say that I have some EXPOSURE to the Java platform - however when it came down to spending money on books and development tools to become proficient at I had to pick one and that had to be .Net in my case. (I've been Microsoft platform for a long time, so a complete switch would be like throwing the car into reverse at 80MPH!). Finally ... if you're really concerned with being a QUALITY developer, you have to develop the ability to know which jobs to walk away from. (I can hear the consultants shuddering in their boots). I would much rather walk away from an assignment that involves a technology that I only marginally know than to get knee deep in it and have to spend too much "catch-up" time trying to make it all work. My point? Develop proficiency in as much as you can - but be careful not to spread yourself too thin. If you REALLY CAN become an expert in both ASP.Net and PHP and maintain eng
-
I know it sounds terrible. But i have ended up in a situation where the client only use PHP and MYSQL. And that means i have to learn PHP and MYSQL which am not that excited about. I am just wondering - what is the best way i can convince them to use .NET technology instead of PHP and sql server instead of mysql. But then they can say Facebook uses PHP and it's good. So what do you all suggest .NET or PHP ? Which one is better ?
Facebook applications support asp.net too with the use of FBML and FBJS. I suppose both language are equal supportive for facebook applications. Cheers, Avnish