database hell
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Not anything to do with PHP directly, just a poor design choice. However, the 'freeness'™ of PHP often attracts less than experienced developers who are totally self taught and therefore know no better. This may not be the case where you are, but has been in my experience (I was one of those once too :-O ).
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum.(Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)DaveyM69 wrote:
the 'freeness'™ of PHP often attracts less than experienced developers who are totally self taught and therefore know no better developers who couldn't cope with learning VB
FTFY!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
AndyInUK wrote:
Is it common practice in PHP ?
No. It is no more common in PHP than in .net, oracle or whosoever. Bad design is bad design. Many use Joomla, here, for example, is a pgn image of the Joomla (MySQL) database schema http://www.torkiljohnsen.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/joomla_15_database_schema.png[^]
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DaveyM69 wrote:
the 'freeness'™ of PHP often attracts less than experienced developers who are totally self taught and therefore know no better developers who couldn't cope with learning VB
FTFY!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
Ah, so that's where I went wrong! I did [lots of ancient stuff from 80s... then] VB, then PHP [followed by a variety of stuff in recent years]. In the last couple of weeks I've had to do some PHP stuff and it hurts! Not sure if that is the fault of the whole Web thing or the language - or possibly the developer (me).
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum.(Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
Crap is as crap does.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
PHP is like VB for the web: nothing particularly wrong with the language, but the culture of cutting corners is very strong there.
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DaveyM69 wrote:
the 'freeness'™ of PHP often attracts less than experienced developers who are totally self taught and therefore know no better developers who couldn't cope with learning VB
FTFY!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
OriginalGriff wrote:
developers who couldn't cope with learning VB
Not possible surely, not without a severe mental defect. :-)
ragnaroknrol The Internet is For Porn[^]
Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners. -
Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
In my personal pecking order the PHP people even are below the VB people. They don't only deal with a language that encourages awful coding, they actually have cultivated bad coding.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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In my personal pecking order the PHP people even are below the VB people. They don't only deal with a language that encourages awful coding, they actually have cultivated bad coding.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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CDP1802 wrote:
PHP people even are below the VB people
And now you can imagine how am feeling after working in Assembly Language,C++,Java,.NET.. 3 more months and ill get rid of it but saying that Facebook is in PHP ???
Of course I know that these are stereotypes, but in both cases the stereotypes have the same origin. Both PHP and VB have been sold to the noobs as being 'easy'. In fact, the only easy thing to do is to do it wrong and any mechanism which might help, like object orientation or type safety, is (or in VB's case was) percieved as unneeded complication. Stereotype or not, but God save us from having to work on anything from somebody so resistant to learning.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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Of course I know that these are stereotypes, but in both cases the stereotypes have the same origin. Both PHP and VB have been sold to the noobs as being 'easy'. In fact, the only easy thing to do is to do it wrong and any mechanism which might help, like object orientation or type safety, is (or in VB's case was) percieved as unneeded complication. Stereotype or not, but God save us from having to work on anything from somebody so resistant to learning.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
What a bitch that i'm currently a junior VB developer lol! But seriously do you guys detest VB that much?
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What a bitch that i'm currently a junior VB developer lol! But seriously do you guys detest VB that much?
Shrimpersfan wrote:
do you guys detest VB that much?
I used to work a lot in C#, but now I work most in VB.NET, which isn't bad (not as nice though). VB6... now that was a language to detest (I unfortunately had to work with that as well).
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What a bitch that i'm currently a junior VB developer lol! But seriously do you guys detest VB that much?
VB's an easy target and is considered publicly by the coding snobs to be the lowest of the low. However, it is a mature and capapble language and like any tool, if used correctly, can do a top rate job. I moved from it to C# several years ago and I'm glad I did, but if I had to I would have no issues going back to VB as my primary language.
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum.(Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
What a bitch that i'm currently a junior VB developer lol! But seriously do you guys detest VB that much?
By all means, no. It's more like I hold little love for the stereotype VB noob who insists on endlessly producing material for the code horror board (and endless pain for me to clean such a mess up) and I'm more than happy whenever someone turns out not to fit with this stereotype at all.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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By all means, no. It's more like I hold little love for the stereotype VB noob who insists on endlessly producing material for the code horror board (and endless pain for me to clean such a mess up) and I'm more than happy whenever someone turns out not to fit with this stereotype at all.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
I like to think of myself as the latter. I also do PHP and C# though. VB.Net is still my home, as I see nothing wrong with it. In plus, my current course requires it. Glad I don't have any of my old code around to look at though... I remember hardcoding arrays in a way that would make the coding horrors section xD
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Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
I'm currently working with a database with 60-odd columns. :wtf: I took a 20-column subset of this table (all I was working with), and normalized it into SEVEN SEPARATE TABLES. Talk about ridiculous. Did I mention this software is the library system at my local highschool, that they pay support for EACH YEAR? Talk about crappy. I only have read-only access too...
Posted from SPARTA!!!!!!!!!! 2.0. Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! ;)
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What a bitch that i'm currently a junior VB developer lol! But seriously do you guys detest VB that much?
Some languages are just more resistant to sloppy coding (like where type safety is strictly enforced, etc.) but VB(6) and PHP are by no means weak or bad languages and they each have their pros and cons depending on the situation. The only reason people perceive them as such is because (as has been mentioned in earlier posts) they are easy to learn and very flexible so unskilled devs often get their hands on them and do terrible, terrible things! When you see what skilled developers can do with these languages you will be amazed at how powerful they really are. Be proud of being a VB dev (hopefully in VB.NET since VB6 is slowly disappearing) and ignore people who knock the language. After all, being a developer has nothing to do with syntax.
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Some languages are just more resistant to sloppy coding (like where type safety is strictly enforced, etc.) but VB(6) and PHP are by no means weak or bad languages and they each have their pros and cons depending on the situation. The only reason people perceive them as such is because (as has been mentioned in earlier posts) they are easy to learn and very flexible so unskilled devs often get their hands on them and do terrible, terrible things! When you see what skilled developers can do with these languages you will be amazed at how powerful they really are. Be proud of being a VB dev (hopefully in VB.NET since VB6 is slowly disappearing) and ignore people who knock the language. After all, being a developer has nothing to do with syntax.
rurouniRonin wrote:
Be proud of being a VB dev
lol I'm only a junior and have only been developing for around 8-9 months, i don't believe i'm a fully fledged dev yet and have days where it seems i never will be lol. A very frustrating occupation at times! I've just started to get my head around CSLA which i think is a fairly easy framework to use.
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Some languages are just more resistant to sloppy coding (like where type safety is strictly enforced, etc.) but VB(6) and PHP are by no means weak or bad languages and they each have their pros and cons depending on the situation. The only reason people perceive them as such is because (as has been mentioned in earlier posts) they are easy to learn and very flexible so unskilled devs often get their hands on them and do terrible, terrible things! When you see what skilled developers can do with these languages you will be amazed at how powerful they really are. Be proud of being a VB dev (hopefully in VB.NET since VB6 is slowly disappearing) and ignore people who knock the language. After all, being a developer has nothing to do with syntax.
A skilled developer can work with everything, even good old Commodore BASIC. But he will have to work around the missing concepts, pay more attention not to run into possible issues and generally have to work in a much more disciplined way. Even 30 years ago some people managed to write working programs with the tools available at that time. Indeed I still use my old computers a lot, but for any serious work I want the language, framework and programming environment to assist me as good as possible.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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Hi All, I had to move from .NET to PHP for a bit and now the system am working on is one hell. They have a table with around 47-50 columns. It's not at all normalized and everything is in one table. Now am re-developing registration process and it's a nightmare to update each column. Is it common practice in PHP ? The problem is i know its crap and i still have to work on the existing system. :(
One table? That is not a database that is a spreadsheet
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I'm currently working with a database with 60-odd columns. :wtf: I took a 20-column subset of this table (all I was working with), and normalized it into SEVEN SEPARATE TABLES. Talk about ridiculous. Did I mention this software is the library system at my local highschool, that they pay support for EACH YEAR? Talk about crappy. I only have read-only access too...
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dawmail333 wrote:
Talk about crappy. I only have read-only access too...
hahah that's mad. I was complaining with 47 columns and you are dealing with 60 - oh god. To be honest the task that am doing is only 1 week job in .NET and it has already taken 2.5 weeks and still not finished because first of all i need to understand the logic of the crap code plus then i have to force myself to write crap code..lol..and list goes on.. 3 months and then done with PHP forever.
