What we are and what is this universe?
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Christian Graus wrote: And Islam rejects Christ and the Bible in all but lip service The 10 commandments are from Moses and the Old Testament - and as I understand it Moses is a pretty strong figure in Islam as well as in Judasim and Christianity. Christian Graus wrote: which of these things strikes you as having a negative impact on society I never said they were wrong - just negative in phrasing - a list of things you shouldn't do - but not a not of what you are allowed to do. Thou shall not kill - would much more postive if it was - thou shall love life in all of its forms. The teachings of Jesus was a redress to some of the negativeness of the current religions of the time. And I think this is why Christian countries tend to have more freedoms as Jesus allowed us to challenge religion more openly and thus allowed us to remove power from religion to the elected-state.
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
This sounds more like Soapbox material but... Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? There is no purpose. why we are in this world? It was all an accident. Pure random luck. If you keep looking for a purpose in life, then you are wasting your time. Get out and enjoy yourself, it's the only chance you'll get. Michael Fat bottomed girls You make the rockin' world go round -- Queen
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ProffK wrote: Africa, especially South, is a beautiful place. :-D amen! Though I reckon there is hardly a place on Earth that is not beautiful in some way. Different yes, but still beautiful.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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ProffK wrote: We have no purpose other than what we assign ourselves. Damn! It took me a whole post to say what you said in one line :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Megan Forbes wrote: Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. I wish I could believe like you do. I would really like to think of my dead mother and father in heaven, waiting for me. Then I think of the five-year old African boy gradually going blind because a worm is eating through his eye, and all the children in Africa and other parts of the world, and how much they have to suffer. If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. There is simply no way to reconcile the notion of goodness with what "god" allows to happen in the world, unless you're living in your own mental version of heaven on earth. Go to Africa. Then tell us how beautiful the world is.
Luther Weeks wrote: Go to Africa. Then tell us how beautiful the world is. Lol - I grew up in Africa. Strangely enough, although I have done missionary work in Lesotho, the most tragic bunch of kids I have ever seen were inner-city kids from New York city who I spent 3 months working with, teaching pc skills and swimming to them. Many had been born addicted, were malnourished - not hungry, but the crap they were being fed did them no good whatsoever. It seems funny to hear someone from the US talk about African kids when there are so many kids suffering on your home ground. Nature is harsh, but most of the problems you talk about have been caused by greedy humans (with free will).
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Well, given the limitations of our own knowledge, we do not have any definitive answer. Then there are a group of people throughout the history of mankind who have answered these questions on behalf of the creator. They are called the messengers or prophets, namely Adam, Noah, Lot, Joseph, Jonah, David, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. We have the freedom to accept (believe) or reject them; it is our choice.
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well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Why should there be a 'why' ? Sorry, but the human race is often either insecure, egotistical or a mix of the two at times ! We're just here, and that does not diminish us. I plan to enjoy life, and I hope to leave things better than I found them so others can as well. Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Well, given the limitations of our own knowledge, we do not have any definitive answer. Then there are a group of people throughout the history of mankind who have answered these questions on behalf of the creator. They are called the messengers or prophets, namely Adam, Noah, Lot, Joseph, Jonah, David, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. We have the freedom to accept (believe) or reject them; it is our choice.
Fazlul Kabir wrote: We have the freedom to accept (believe) or reject them; it is our choice. Cool :cool: :rose: Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: Scientists have managed to artificially create "life"; i.e. they got a bunch of chemicals to exhibit certain properties which collectively are called "life". I don't believe that. Could you cite the study? "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan, its been done a few times up to the level of self replicating amino acids (several years ago) and beyond. Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein Without struggle, there is no progress
pankajdaga wrote: Science without Religion is lame Belief maybe, not religion. Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities Where does it say this? There is on going research into the primordial soup, after the creation of the earth, or the possibility of life arricing here via a comet, or some other none terestrial body from space. It has been shown that in deep space in gas clouds basic amino acids have formed (and detected from their spectra), though various chemical reactions. These are a fundamental building block for life. Aisha Ikram wrote: from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things Cells are not the most fundamental structure to life. DNA, RNA, amino acids and proteins are more fundamental. How is a cell self replicating. Though DNA. How is DNA self replicating? Though the properties of the molecule itself, which in turn can be explained by chemistry. Anyway, whats this chopped from? A thread on religion and how/if God created life?
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Megan Forbes wrote: are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibil there is nothing more limiting than religion. Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions - 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Relgions oppose change - why? Well quite sensibly because change is dangerous especially to early mankind. Religion was around before we had laws and a proper health service - and looking at the major religions and their preachings these are what we see in order to keep order among the people. As we have become more civilised (I still don't think we are there yet) we have replaced these with laws. Lets take eating pork - why is this not allowed in Judaism and Muslim and yet is allowed in Christianity. Think climate and tape worms - tape worms aren't as much a problem in the colder climes due to the colder weather and the technique of salting/curing. This is where religion imposed a rule (law) for the health of the population (and a goood thing too) but this law broke down when the northern heathens were converted since they new how to prepare pork so it was healthier. ...
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Shaun Wilde wrote: 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Any current translation of the 10 commandments is a translation of a translation of an obsolete language and should not be taken literally. Ironically, I feel the same about the bible. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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Megan Forbes wrote: Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. I wish I could believe like you do. I would really like to think of my dead mother and father in heaven, waiting for me. Then I think of the five-year old African boy gradually going blind because a worm is eating through his eye, and all the children in Africa and other parts of the world, and how much they have to suffer. If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. There is simply no way to reconcile the notion of goodness with what "god" allows to happen in the world, unless you're living in your own mental version of heaven on earth. Go to Africa. Then tell us how beautiful the world is.
Luther Weeks wrote: If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. Who are you to tell God how to run the universe? It is precisely this arrogance, this rejection of God which you have so eloquently shown us, that has caused all of our grief in the first place. Your dead mother and father no longer have a choice whether they want to make it to heaven or not, but you do. Personally, I would rather believe in God and end up being wrong than the other way around.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
The question for where things came from ultimately, although understandable, is pretty futile at this point in human history. What good does the knowledge do us? Let assume everyone agrees God created us. We're still going to bitch and argue over what His will is, and how we should live our lives. Let's assume we prove the theory X and understand how it all came about. Great, then what? We can't even successfully live on this planet without killing each other, or at least making each other miserable for over stupid selfish desires. We don't have a clue as to where we heading, and aren't making many real attempts to work on decent path either. I understand that not knowing what to do with the info is not a reason to stop searching, but maybe we should spend our energies on something a bit closer to home, and more productive. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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I won't answer for Paul but here my $0.2: Aisha Ikram wrote: what is our end? We do not have an end. Aisha Ikram wrote: where we will eventually go? Maggot food. Aisha Ikram wrote: are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Nope. Our body will decompose and act as "food" for the soil and maggots. Cows will eat the grass that used to be bits of your body. A mother will drink that cow's (processed) milk and one day give birth a beautiful baby. So, in a way, we are eternal :) Aisha Ikram wrote: we have came from We evolved. Ever heard of Darwin? Aisha Ikram wrote: you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. Bullshit. I have studied biology. Ever heard of Darwin? A "living" cell is considered as living because it exhibits certain properties. Scientists have managed to artificially create "life"; i.e. they got a bunch of chemicals to exhibit certain properties which collectively are called "life". Aisha Ikram wrote: very first living cell Ever heard of Darwin? (I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. Are u? :)) We are ultimately a bunch of chemicals. Chemical properties change and different arrangements can produce different results viz: both me and Saddam Husein can be termed as living but I sure as hell hope I'm different than him. Is reducing human beings to a bunch of chemicals too reductive? In a way it is; after all Leonardo da Vinci/Mozart/Eistein were much more than just a collection of elements. This is where random mutation and evolution come together; a "miracle" happened and the right combination of chemicals along with the right social conditions created these geniuses. If all the above seems simplistic to you or too cynical be my guest; I can understand why people need to believe that a god exists and that life has meaning; that's why people with huge egos used to build pyramids. Most people have an emotional need and don't let the facts get in the way of good story (Bible/Koran/etc). I'm one of those people who don't mind spoiling a good story; I prefer the truth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
My $.02 about your $.02. Brian Azzopardi wrote: are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Nope. Our body will decompose and act as "food" for the soil and maggots. Cows will eat the grass that used to be bits of your body. A mother will drink that cow's (processed) milk and one day give birth a beautiful baby. So, in a way, we are eternal I agree that we decompose. The maggots may have a hard time breaking through that steal and concrete casket though. However, the God that was able to make life from nothing will miraculously resurrect our decomposed bodies. For an example, read John 11 from the Bible. Btw, that miracle had many witnesses. Brian Azzopardi wrote: We evolved. Ever heard of Darwin? Yeah, but how has it ever been proven that life arose from nothing? Survival of the fittest doesn't prove anything. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Scientists have managed to artificially create "life"; i.e. they got a bunch of chemicals to exhibit certain properties which collectively are called "life". Amazing!! Where can I see this new life they created? Wait a minute!! They created it, so does that prove that it can't happen without outside help? Brian Azzopardi wrote: This is where random mutation and evolution come together; a "miracle" happened and the right combination of chemicals along with the right social conditions created these geniuses. :laugh: Why haven't we seen more geniuses over time? Shouldn't we be evolving into a better species? Actually, I think we are regressing. Brian Azzopardi wrote: I can understand why people need to believe that a god exists and that life has meaning No you really don't understand.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Megan Forbes wrote: are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibil there is nothing more limiting than religion. Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions - 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Relgions oppose change - why? Well quite sensibly because change is dangerous especially to early mankind. Religion was around before we had laws and a proper health service - and looking at the major religions and their preachings these are what we see in order to keep order among the people. As we have become more civilised (I still don't think we are there yet) we have replaced these with laws. Lets take eating pork - why is this not allowed in Judaism and Muslim and yet is allowed in Christianity. Think climate and tape worms - tape worms aren't as much a problem in the colder climes due to the colder weather and the technique of salting/curing. This is where religion imposed a rule (law) for the health of the population (and a goood thing too) but this law broke down when the northern heathens were converted since they new how to prepare pork so it was healthier. ...
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Shaun Wilde wrote: there is nothing more limiting than religion. Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions - 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Relgions oppose change - why? Well quite sensibly because change is dangerous especially to early mankind. Wow 10 laws!!! Now thats what I call limiting! Shaun Wilde wrote: As we have become more civilised (I still don't think we are there yet) we have replaced these with laws. There is a big difference between the laws of man and the laws of God. What authority does man have to make law except the authority God has given him?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Luther Weeks wrote: If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. Who are you to tell God how to run the universe? It is precisely this arrogance, this rejection of God which you have so eloquently shown us, that has caused all of our grief in the first place. Your dead mother and father no longer have a choice whether they want to make it to heaven or not, but you do. Personally, I would rather believe in God and end up being wrong than the other way around.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: Personally, I would rather believe in God and end up being wrong than the other way around. Also a real good point! :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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ProffK wrote: We have no purpose other than what we assign ourselves. Damn! It took me a whole post to say what you said in one line :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: We have no purpose other than what we assign ourselves. That's just pure arrogance Paul. Don't fall for that crap.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? We are in this world to glorify God. We are his representatives here on Earth until he sees fit to evict us.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *