DotNet reflector. Is this right?
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No where on there site does it say anything about expiration or the old version not working after a certain date. here[^] I wonder if they are just not going to support it any longer or if they actually have in mind to time-bomb it?
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
I have found the source for the expiry date. Here[^], 6th question. My original expiry date suggestion was out by 1 day.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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I have found the source for the expiry date. Here[^], 6th question. My original expiry date suggestion was out by 1 day.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
hmmm you were right. I wonder I might have an old version pre-redgate whether it would work past the annihilation date?? I might do some serchin and see if I still have a copy somewhere in backups.
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
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If they expire in May that will be that. I am prepared I downloaded your ILSpy a week or so ago and it is a very nice utility that will replace Reflector.
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
I added a thread to Red Gate's forum and you know something, a lot of people are also very upset about this sleight of hand and underhand strategy they have. It makes me more determined to try and get a refund from them. In the meantime, I "discovered" ILSpy and thanks to you guys for your heads-up on it. I downloaded it and I was able to load the same executable and assemblies that caused Red Gate's implementation to blow up. It seems then, that freeware in the shape of ILSpy is the way forward.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
they deleted perfectly legal software from his machine without his permission
I agree, however that happens all the time one way or another. When FireFox suggests me to upgrade its browser, if I agree I get a new one, the old one is gone, so I can't compare them, and if for some reason I don't like the new one, I have to figure out if and how I can revert to the previous version. When I install VS2010 my earlier VS2008 remains more or less intact, however it no longer works as before, since now double-clicking a proj or sln file will launch VS2010. It even may have caused some new .NET versions and service packs to be installed, fixing some bugs and introducing new ones. When I enable automatic Windows updates, I never am sure my machine will work today as good as it did yesterday. Software developers and vendors simply aren't sufficiently explicit in what will happen when you install, remove, alter the installation, or answer a related question. And yes, modifying an installation without consent and without notification is very bad. As is not cleaning up, so whether old versions should be removed is a dilemma the administrator should be in charge of. IMO clean up should be a separate installation step, something that can be postponed until one is happy with the new software. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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I added a thread to Red Gate's forum and you know something, a lot of people are also very upset about this sleight of hand and underhand strategy they have. It makes me more determined to try and get a refund from them. In the meantime, I "discovered" ILSpy and thanks to you guys for your heads-up on it. I downloaded it and I was able to load the same executable and assemblies that caused Red Gate's implementation to blow up. It seems then, that freeware in the shape of ILSpy is the way forward.
The best way to piss someone off is to tell them they have to do something or that that is the way it is going to be. At least me! So yes I believe ILSpy is the way to go, when Henry and I started our conversation I looked in a few of my old backups and didn't find an old pre-redgate version of Reflector so I tried loading the same .dlls in ILSpy that I had loaded into Relector and it gave me the same information. So you know what RedGate can KMA I won't buy anything of there's EVER!, and I don't believe I'll be alone on this.
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
Repost (a bit longer-winded, but a repost none the less).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
hmmm you were right. I wonder I might have an old version pre-redgate whether it would work past the annihilation date?? I might do some serchin and see if I still have a copy somewhere in backups.
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
http://download.cnet.com/Red-Gate-s-NET-Reflector/3000-10250_4-10962255.html[^] Is this the version you use? Still seems to be free here. Not to dispute your point. Just thought it may be helpful.
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
In the past I held Red Gate with high regard, when they 'took over' Reflector I saw a promise that it will always be available for free, which lifted my regard for them, when they went back on their promise they also dropped off my list of companies to consider when I want anything. I will never deal with someone that lies to me in my face or that don't hold their own word...
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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I added a thread to Red Gate's forum and you know something, a lot of people are also very upset about this sleight of hand and underhand strategy they have. It makes me more determined to try and get a refund from them. In the meantime, I "discovered" ILSpy and thanks to you guys for your heads-up on it. I downloaded it and I was able to load the same executable and assemblies that caused Red Gate's implementation to blow up. It seems then, that freeware in the shape of ILSpy is the way forward.
IMHO, Red-gate over charges for their products.
do or do not, there is no try
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JimmyRopes wrote:
they deleted perfectly legal software from his machine without his permission
I agree, however that happens all the time one way or another. When FireFox suggests me to upgrade its browser, if I agree I get a new one, the old one is gone, so I can't compare them, and if for some reason I don't like the new one, I have to figure out if and how I can revert to the previous version. When I install VS2010 my earlier VS2008 remains more or less intact, however it no longer works as before, since now double-clicking a proj or sln file will launch VS2010. It even may have caused some new .NET versions and service packs to be installed, fixing some bugs and introducing new ones. When I enable automatic Windows updates, I never am sure my machine will work today as good as it did yesterday. Software developers and vendors simply aren't sufficiently explicit in what will happen when you install, remove, alter the installation, or answer a related question. And yes, modifying an installation without consent and without notification is very bad. As is not cleaning up, so whether old versions should be removed is a dilemma the administrator should be in charge of. IMO clean up should be a separate installation step, something that can be postponed until one is happy with the new software. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
Luc Pattyn wrote:
I agree, however that happens all the time one way or another.
But in case of Reflector it happens even if you choose NOT to install the new version. IIRC, this was the case with me as well. They asked me to upgrade it and when I refused, I wasn't able to use the old one. :wtf: I had to finally upgrade it. Anyways I think I still have the good old one by Lutz Roeder (which I downloaded long back) in some of my backup device. I hope that won't ask for an upgrade.
..Go Green..
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
ILSpy is the free replacement (as already noted). Their pro version was my first introduction to what RedGate could do and I was underwhelmed to say the least. They took a solid, concise application and turned it into crapware. Maybe I'm taking that a bit far, but something smells.
PHS241 wrote:
It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing.
Off topic, but just wait. This is coming here in the U.S. with the way our government is trending. It might not be so overt, but the effect will be the same.
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A pre-Redgate copy will work as long as we have .NET, as it was never designed to expire. I might even have one somewhere.
That was my thought also but I wasn't able to find an old copy in my initial search. Maybe I'll look more later, I'm curious now.
If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] JaxCoder.com[^]WinHeist - Windows Electronic Inventory SysTem
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ILSpy is the free replacement (as already noted). Their pro version was my first introduction to what RedGate could do and I was underwhelmed to say the least. They took a solid, concise application and turned it into crapware. Maybe I'm taking that a bit far, but something smells.
PHS241 wrote:
It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing.
Off topic, but just wait. This is coming here in the U.S. with the way our government is trending. It might not be so overt, but the effect will be the same.
You could make your first paragraph a little clearer. When you say "their pro version" it's not clear that you mean Red Gate, and not the developers of ILSpy.
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
I agree, however that happens all the time one way or another.
But in case of Reflector it happens even if you choose NOT to install the new version. IIRC, this was the case with me as well. They asked me to upgrade it and when I refused, I wasn't able to use the old one. :wtf: I had to finally upgrade it. Anyways I think I still have the good old one by Lutz Roeder (which I downloaded long back) in some of my backup device. I hope that won't ask for an upgrade.
..Go Green..
Yeah, it's one thing to delete a previous version when you choose to upgrade, it's an entirely different thing to delete a previous version when you've chosen *not* to upgrade, especially when there's no legal defense for removing software on a user's computer without their consent. There was consent to install the new software, but if there is nothing in the EULA that claims that you forfeit the right to own previous versions (and even possibly if there is - contracts with illegal provisions are not legal contracts) then it is a tort (and thus you could threaten a lawsuit) if not a crime. Sounds like some sort of property tort to me, possibly also a breach of contract (as there was no provision in the agreement). Tresspass to Chattels[^] Trover[^]
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It makes no difference I guess, seeing that I bought a licence from Red Gate for what used to be Lutz Roeder's freeware product. I ran into problems with Red Gate's version so I wanted to see if Roeder's original version worked. When I ran it, I was prompted to update which I declined. Red Gate then took it upon themselves to then delete the original exe file. This got me thinking that Red Gate are entitled to protect their paid-for investment but what right do they have to delete what was a 100% legal freeware app? I've not violated any law that I can see. It's a bit like saying that because you drive an older model car, when the manufacturer brings out a new car and gives you the option to trade it in you have the right to say no. After all, it's your old car. Because you said no, they impound your old car and crush it leaving you with nothing. Where exactly is it written that I gave Red Gate permission to delete files from my disk drive. I never said they could. It's my property so what gives them the right to interfere with my personal property? I have no problem with having purchased the licence but I really resent what they assumed they could do. As it is, I've since learned that Reflector is not the same product it used to be. It's as if Red Gate started at the top (thanks to Lutz for putting them there) and then they worked their way downward! I'm not happy with Red Gate and less than happy with a product that crashes when I try to use it. For that privilege, I wasted £72. I'm hoping that you can learn a lesson from my experience. Don't assume the Reflector is what it used to be. Save your money and research other tools which it looks like some are still free. I won't get my money back from Red Gate. Don't waste yours either. Sorry if I'm pissed with Red Gate but I expected better than what they charged me for.
I totally argree, what they did sucks, but they are well within their rights. DMCA = its their software, not yours. Never has been yours. Because its their SW, they can do whatever they like with it, anytime they like, including changing the agreement without your approval, and you have no recourse because you never bought anything in the first place. Even if you paid $0 for it, this still holds (in fact, in the US, since there was no exchange of value, you have even fewer rights). I've veen waiting to see this start happening ever since the DMCA came out. In the long run, the DMCA will probably be the biggest boon to open source since the computer.
patbob
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I totally argree, what they did sucks, but they are well within their rights. DMCA = its their software, not yours. Never has been yours. Because its their SW, they can do whatever they like with it, anytime they like, including changing the agreement without your approval, and you have no recourse because you never bought anything in the first place. Even if you paid $0 for it, this still holds (in fact, in the US, since there was no exchange of value, you have even fewer rights). I've veen waiting to see this start happening ever since the DMCA came out. In the long run, the DMCA will probably be the biggest boon to open source since the computer.
patbob
I have a result. I've been contacted by Red Gate and they've agreed to refund my £72. That's a nice gesture and will hopefully put the unpleasant experience with Reflector behind me. I certainly don't wish them any lack of success and I hope a day will come when they will release Reflector back to the wider domain. I've now embraced ILSpy and as the source code is available it will perhaps be subject to peer review and it will become a better and more refined product, something that Reflector should and could have been. Anyway, I'm happy about the outcome. If I've learned any lesson it's the case now that I will not simply accept a product I knew and trusted is the best of breed. There are other horses to look at. I'd have been happier if my original version had still been eligible for use.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
they deleted perfectly legal software from his machine without his permission
I agree, however that happens all the time one way or another. When FireFox suggests me to upgrade its browser, if I agree I get a new one, the old one is gone, so I can't compare them, and if for some reason I don't like the new one, I have to figure out if and how I can revert to the previous version. When I install VS2010 my earlier VS2008 remains more or less intact, however it no longer works as before, since now double-clicking a proj or sln file will launch VS2010. It even may have caused some new .NET versions and service packs to be installed, fixing some bugs and introducing new ones. When I enable automatic Windows updates, I never am sure my machine will work today as good as it did yesterday. Software developers and vendors simply aren't sufficiently explicit in what will happen when you install, remove, alter the installation, or answer a related question. And yes, modifying an installation without consent and without notification is very bad. As is not cleaning up, so whether old versions should be removed is a dilemma the administrator should be in charge of. IMO clean up should be a separate installation step, something that can be postponed until one is happy with the new software. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
Interesting... I have Firefox 3 and Firefox 4 beta installed and working on my machine. If I don't choose to use the update and download another version I can install them side-by-side. Which makes sense. You're UPDATING existing software so it will be replaced. I think your Visual Studio is broken I have 2005, 2008 and 2010 installed and double clicking on any .sln file opens in the correct version of Visual Studio - in fact the .sln files have either an 8, 9 or 10 in the icon telling you this. I don't use the .csprj files from explorer because Visual Studio wants to make an .sln for it if you don't, so what's the point. Delphi on the other hand does not do this (I wish it did). The problem as I understand it is like this. Lets say back in the early '90's you purchased Sybase database and installed it. Then you decided to install SQL Server 6.5 and during the install or usage of SQL Server it removed Sybase. It's the same code base, but separate products. This would be wrong and I'm sure you'd be pissed just like the Original Poster. The thing for Red Gate and any other software vendor for that matter should be something like this. Inform the user. Crazy idea I know. Something like "Hey we don't play well with product X, by continuing the install we're going to remove Product X for you". Only make it show up if the installer detected product X, which it already had because it removed it anyway. In a perfect world UX should trump business decisions.
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Interesting... I have Firefox 3 and Firefox 4 beta installed and working on my machine. If I don't choose to use the update and download another version I can install them side-by-side. Which makes sense. You're UPDATING existing software so it will be replaced. I think your Visual Studio is broken I have 2005, 2008 and 2010 installed and double clicking on any .sln file opens in the correct version of Visual Studio - in fact the .sln files have either an 8, 9 or 10 in the icon telling you this. I don't use the .csprj files from explorer because Visual Studio wants to make an .sln for it if you don't, so what's the point. Delphi on the other hand does not do this (I wish it did). The problem as I understand it is like this. Lets say back in the early '90's you purchased Sybase database and installed it. Then you decided to install SQL Server 6.5 and during the install or usage of SQL Server it removed Sybase. It's the same code base, but separate products. This would be wrong and I'm sure you'd be pissed just like the Original Poster. The thing for Red Gate and any other software vendor for that matter should be something like this. Inform the user. Crazy idea I know. Something like "Hey we don't play well with product X, by continuing the install we're going to remove Product X for you". Only make it show up if the installer detected product X, which it already had because it removed it anyway. In a perfect world UX should trump business decisions.
yes, I think you're right about FF3/FF4 side-by-side, however when FF3.0.15 suggests you update to 3.0.16, you can't have both AFAIK, so you turn down or take the plunge. In my experience the Visual Studio situation is not as simple as you describe it. The only way that works reliably for me is by opening Studio first, then browse for the solution or project of interest. I avoid reinstalling any VS as MSDN help right now works pretty well for me, which has taken some doing.
kenwilcox wrote:
In a perfect world UX should trump business decisions.
In a perfect world it would. It should everywhere. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
